Escort radar in 1.4b

[John Pancoast]

Messing around with 1.4b a bit (some minor testing) and something I never noticed before.
In a test with a late 1943 convoy those silly red bearing lines to the escorts via my rwr picking up their radar don't appear like they do with other installs. Metox on my boat (though with the way the game is, radar type doesn't matter).
The escorts themselves also come charging at me "via their radar"at the same time (as they should) vs. not doing this in other installs.
Anyone else ever notice this ?

[Hebe Vollmaus]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Messing around with 1.4b a bit (some minor testing) and something I never noticed before.
In a test with a late 1943 convoy those silly red bearing lines to the escorts via my rwr picking up their radar don't appear like they do with other installs. Metox on my boat (though with the way the game is, radar type doesn't matter).
The escorts themselves also come charging at me "via their radar"at the same time (as they should) vs. not doing this in other installs.
Anyone else ever notice this ?

I'm not shure if i understand you correctly. The last paragraph makes no sense to me. "The escorts themselves[...]" Especialy the last part "vs. not doing this in other installs".

But the first paragraph "In a test with a late[...]" may or may not have something to do with the so called "Config Date Bug". About this pice of quirk was my first post on Subsim:
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=170485


And my Tool will face a user with this info before checking a Campaign-file:

"Hint1: When RadarWarningReceiver RWR is modified to longer Range on Sensors/Factor and one Class specified Ship (RndUnit) in RndGroup has an older CfgDate, the whole group may not seen by RWR on +=25km Nav-map.

Hint2: Sh3MissionEditor may set CfgDate= of RndUnits to Mission StartDate which result to "CfgDate-Bug" on Class= specified Units (not updated Eqp in late war)."


And let me say some about this "Anyone else ever notice this".
I'm shure everything on SH3 has been noticed so far.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Hebe Vollmaus

I'm not shure if i understand you correctly. The last paragraph makes no sense to me. "The escorts themselves[...]" Especialy the last part "vs. not doing this in other installs".

But the first paragraph "In a test with a late[...]" may or may not have something to do with the so called "Config Date Bug". About this pice of quirk was my first post on Subsim:
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=170485


And my Tool will face a user with this info before checking a Campaign-file:

"Hint1: When RadarWarningReceiver RWR is modified to longer Range on Sensors/Factor and one Class specified Ship (RndUnit) in RndGroup has an older CfgDate, the whole group may not seen by RWR on +=25km Nav-map.

Hint2: Sh3MissionEditor may set CfgDate= of RndUnits to Mission StartDate which result to "CfgDate-Bug" on Class= specified Units (not updated Eqp in late war)."


And let me say some about this "Anyone else ever notice this".
I'm shure everything on SH3 has been noticed so far.

Completely stock .14b and if I understand your info. correctly, it applies to modified items.

[Hebe Vollmaus]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Completely stock .14b and if I understand your info. correctly, it applies to modified items.

Looks like i have deleted my old Test-files. Have to recreate them.
Today Test-results are unstable. Sometimes get RWR-lines, sometimes not.

In vanilla SH3 v1.4b the RWR-lines can be seen only when the Visual Range is heavy reduced (heavy Fog) and no Radar is on. When no other Sensor can get the enemy. And the boat with Naxos is within around 3,8km from the target. Not as the Sensors.dat says 7,5km. At least on my Install.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Hebe Vollmaus

Looks like i have deleted my old Test-files. Have to recreate them.
Today Test-results are unstable. Sometimes get RWR-lines, sometimes not.

In vanilla SH3 v1.4b the RWR-lines can be seen only when the Visual Range is heavy reduced (heavy Fog) and no Radar is on. When no other Sensor can get the enemy. And the boat with Naxos is within around 3,8km from the target. Not as the Sensors.dat says 7,5km. At least on my Install.

Ok thanks for the info. My experience was with a Metox, good weather, no radar on, etc.
No big deal, just had never noticed it before so was curious.

[Hebe Vollmaus]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Ok thanks for the info. My experience was with a Metox, good weather, no radar on, etc.
No big deal, just had never noticed it before so was curious.

Sorry, i mean FuMB1Metox. Not Naxos. The one you get when start Campaign 1943 Brest.

[Hebe Vollmaus]

I have found my old Test-file and made some more tests.

To me it is clear that in unmodified v1.4b the red RWR-lines used with Metox in 1943 cannot be seen on Nav-map. The Range is too low. Only one enemy Radar (Type286=3000) has lower range. Every other radar will detect you long before you get a chance the RWR-lines can appear.

This is much more different on other installs.
This is a table of some major Big-mods. The ranges has been more then doubled.

RWR                        SH3     GWX    NYGM   WAC
FuMB1Metox          4000    22000    24000    18000
FuMB10Borkum     5000    18000    20000     8000
FuMB7Naxos          7500    15000    20000     8000
FuMB26Tunis       10000    25000    24000    20000

And only here, with modified longer ranges for RWR, can this ugly "Config Date Bug" jump in.
As said above, this can happen when one or more Units in a Random RND group has on old CfgDate.
This cannot be avoided on long-Wartime-convoys. The only alternative may be split such convoys in time, when new Equipment is available. This would be impractical and blow up the filesize of the campaign. As a result also blows up the Load-time.
Or - the Class= must be deleted. I'm not sure this makes sense. Since it may have a reason why the Class is there.
Anyway, the result in this CfgBug is that the RWR-lines does not appear from these units.

Again, this may not happen in blanc SH3. Regardless of the RWR. Even the ranges for RWR grows within wartime, the ranges for allies Radar will also grow. This may not fully true in other installs.

BTW, the "Radar Warning range factor=2" in Sensors.cfg is useless.
Alas found this lately.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Hebe Vollmaus

I have found my old Test-file and made some more tests.

To me it is clear that in unmodified v1.4b the red RWR-lines used with Metox in 1943 cannot be seen on Nav-map. The Range is too low. Only one enemy Radar (Type286=3000) has lower range. Every other radar will detect you long before you get a chance the RWR-lines can appear.

This is much more different on other installs.
This is a table of some major Big-mods. The ranges has been more then doubled.

RWR                        SH3     GWX    NYGM   WAC
FuMB1Metox          4000    22000    24000    18000
FuMB10Borkum     5000    18000    20000     8000
FuMB7Naxos          7500    15000    20000     8000
FuMB26Tunis       10000    25000    24000    20000

And only here, with modified longer ranges for RWR, can this ugly "Config Date Bug" jump in.
As said above, this can happen when one or more Units in a Random RND group has on old CfgDate.
This cannot be avoided on long-Wartime-convoys. The only alternative may be split such convoys in time, when new Equipment is available. This would be impractical and blow up the filesize of the campaign. As a result also blows up the Load-time.
Or - the Class= must be deleted. I'm not sure this makes sense. Since it may have a reason why the Class is there.
Anyway, the result in this CfgBug is that the RWR-lines does not appear from these units.

Again, this may not happen in blanc SH3. Regardless of the RWR. Even the ranges for RWR grows within wartime, the ranges for allies Radar will also grow. This may not fully true in other installs.

BTW, the "Radar Warning range factor=2" in Sensors.cfg is useless.
Alas found this lately.

Excellent as always Hebe, thanks ! I halve the rwr ranges in the megamods anyway, so as to make the aircraft at least somewhat interesting.
They still can't hit the broadside of a barn anyway, but it makes the crash dive a little less boring, time after time after...

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by Hebe Vollmaus

Or - the Class= must be deleted. I'm not sure this makes sense. Since it may have a reason why the Class is there.

Class=, is a misnamed thing as I see it in the Campaign Files.
Should be Unit=
But the Game don't see it that way.
A Class is WarShip, Merchant, etc.
A Type is 4, 104, etc.

A Unit is DDTribal and so on.

So to make the decision of what a Type=4 is?
The Game reads the file in the Sea folder to decide what the Class is.

And then We descend into the WTF zone.

[Mister_M]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

And then We descend into the WTF zone.

Tell us more !

[Jeff-Groves]

So. Why have a list of Type= in one file that seems to do ABSOLUTELY Not a damned thing?
Ever see an Iceberg do ANYTHING different in GWX 3 even though it's a type 16?
And Stock SH3 don't even LIST a type 16! SO.
WTF?

[Mister_M]

Because they have different behaviour.

For example, if you assign the type 4 to a battleship, it will work as a destroyer (trying to ram you, doing DC runs....).

Also, type 408 can't be spotted by the crew.

But considering ALL the English.cfg, it shows again that some ideas were finally not taken into account in the final released game (Type202=Missile Submarine, Type305=Helicopter, Type405=Missile....)

[Kapitän]

Originally Posted by Hebe Vollmaus

This is much more different on other installs.
This is a table of some major Big-mods. The ranges has been more then doubled.

RWR                        SH3     GWX    NYGM   WAC
FuMB1Metox          4000    22000    24000    18000
FuMB10Borkum     5000    18000    20000     8000
FuMB7Naxos          7500    15000    20000     8000
FuMB26Tunis       10000    25000    24000    20000

Thanks! Do you happen to know the ranges for CCoM?

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Kapitän

Thanks! Do you happen to know the ranges for CCoM?

Grab S3D and you can see for yourself. Sensors.dat file. Or if you want send me that file and I'll tell you.

[Kapitän]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Grab S3D and you can see for yourself. Sensors.dat file. Or if you want send me that file and I'll tell you.

Ok, will check ...