Still Confused about detecting ships

[Stevan_Segal]

So I have read the tutorial as well as watched some videos online but I am still confused on how to classify and detect ships so that I can target them. Each thing I've read or watched seemed to describe each station individually but would like to try and find something that puts everything together and takes you through the steps from when you first discover a contact and how to classify it and target it (if it's hostile). Anyone know of a good tutorial?

Thanks

[Mike Abberton]

Assuming that you really do mean ships (not boats or subs), you generally have 3 or 4 ways to classify surface ships.

Narrowband Sonar - Comparison of the narrowband tonals to the class-specific frequency charts (either in game or with a printed out paper chart)

ESM Mast - If you place the cursor on the wedge as it appears in the ESM screen, a classification will pop up in the window. Not always conclusive if there are a lot of signals overlapping.

Periscope - A lot of people overlook this. I know I did when I started playing DW. I had it in my mind that modern subs "never" use the scope, but against surface ships it is a critical tool.

Active Intercept - In stock DW, I don' think you can meaningfully use the active sonar intercept screen for classification (but you can for tracking/TMA). In both the Reinforced Alert and the LWAMI mods, active sonar intercepts can be used for classification by comparing the sonar frequency noted on the screen with the platform data.

Mike

[Delgard]

I guess I need to use the Narrowband sonar more. Is that the sonar on the side of the boat?

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by Delgard

I guess I need to use the Narrowband sonar more. Is that the sonar on the side of the boat?

No, the narrowband is just processing of the broadband signal. Although we only say DEMON for the speed readout in sonar in Dangerous Waters, DEMON is what makes narrowband possible, as well. It stands for DE MOdulatioN. It's much easier to see frequencies over long range (narrowband) than general noise (broadband) because things in nature don't emit distinct, consistent frequencies. The three panels on the side of the Seawolf and Virginia are the Wide Aperture Array (WAA), and the tube-looking thing running the long axis of the LA is where the towed array is stored.

[speed150mph]

As others have mentioned, ships and subs have very different procedures to classify, with ships being easier since you have more options and the generally make more noise.

Determining surface vs sub contact is fairly easy unless at very long range. Listen on broadband, turn on sound and use the mark 1 ear drum. If you hear a loud hissing sound, it's generally going to be a surface ship, if it's making a quiet thrumming bass sound, that is most likely a submerged contact. And if it's making a buzzing whinny sound, that's a torpedo and it's time to run like hell. Now I'll break down what I do with each.

Surface contact

First thing I do I quickly guage distance (how loud the noise is) and type of ship (most in game cargo ships will make a distinctly different noise then a fast screw ship like a powerboat or a warship) I use that to prioritize what contacts to focus on and determine if they may be an immediate threat. If they are, try to take evasive maneuvers to avoid detection and get some space.

Assuming they arnt an immediate threat I turn so my sub is positioned so the contact is between 30-60 degrees off my bow. This allows me to point my bow, hull, and towed array at him while keeping as small a sonar profile as possible in case he goes active. Try and acquire him on all three arrays to triangulate his position faster and with better accuracy. This also allows you to get a better ID passively as the different sensors tend to pick up different frequencys. I get a preliminary ID and then if he's distant enough to now worry me I go to periscope depth.

At periscope depth I start off with my ESM antenna. This will get you a quick ID unless their running emcon conditions. If that's the case I raise periscope and try to grab a picture. Do this stuff quick as your easier to pick up in the surface duct and periscope make good targets.

I look at all the data I have, try and classify. If I can't identify then I slowly creep closer until I can.

Then you do your TMA if you know how, or you wait until the auto crew gets it right (ie the solution speed matches the demon display speed, bearing matches, range looks about right) once your confident it's correct, feel free to engage.

Submerged contact.

With a submerged contact it's a lot harder. Start off the same way as with the ship. Put him 30-60 degrees off the bow, and try and triangulate him with your sensors. Try to get an ID with narrowband frequencies.

If there is a layer, purpous over and under the layer. This will tell you if he is above or below the layer and give you a depth range.

Once you match the ID, get a solid solution. Then engage.

Hope that helps some

[p7p8]

Originally Posted by speed150mph

Try and acquire him on all three arrays to triangulate his position faster and with better accuracy.

This is first good advice in your comment.

Originally Posted by speed150mph

Once you match the ID, get a solid solution. Then engage.
Hope that helps some

And this is second and last good advice.

All rest is wrong.

[Delgard]

Playing the campaign scenarios can be a challenge simply by understanding the intent of the orders. The intel weenies can be slacking in their writing, too. But, what do you expect from shore ****ters?

Originally Posted by Delgard

Playing the campaign scenarios can be a challenge simply by understanding the intent of the orders. The intel weenies can be slacking in their writing, too. But, what do you expect from shore ****ters?

The campaign is really lackluster, mildly spoken. While the original story is great, the missions are ridiculous. Some are completed in a matter of minutes. I mean... what?
I feel the designer(s) went overboard by trying to make it multi-platform playable. Quality suffered a lot from it.

I'd love to provide something better, but the editor is really uncomfortable to work with and doesn't leave too many possibilities. Still, working on something, though.

[Delgard]

Ahh, life ain't so bad. I have learned to do basic editing to experience different things. Plus, seems like a lot of downloads. Always nice to nag on the landlubbers. Their cable TV and McDonalds! Ack!

[Wildcat]

There is a very detailed manual called The Red Book available on this site in the downloads section.

It was written originally for 688i and Sub Command, if I remember correctly.

It is filled with VERY good information, especially regarding detection and strategy and tactics.

Unfortunately it was written heavily with multiplayer engagements in mind, so you have to consider that when playing offline, but the advice is still all very solid. It also covers manual TMA. Most people can do manual TMA if they are forced to, but the red book discusses a few situations in which you should switch to manual TMA in order to make a faster and better attack on a dynamic target like a submarine or player controlled FFG.

Very good manual, it is of higher quality than a lot of books you can buy on Amazon yet it is free. Download it ASAP and read it front to back a couple of times and you'll be sinking everything around you.

[Nexus7]

speed150mph gave an extensive description already (I wonder what p7p8 considers wrong?).

This is exclusively for subs:
Classification in general is a difficult task, perhaps more difficult than TMA. Using NB with spherical, hull, and towed array will help discriminate. To listen at the sound is a good idea, I've never used it as a classification tool, I assume it requires the experience. Does it really function for submerged too? Gotta try.

It was not mentioned but the DEMON can give you the number of blades of the contact's propeller; gotta remember that depending on signal strength you might not get all the "lines". USNI reference usually contains that info for the modelled platforms.
Perhaps weird, but the HF sonar is another visive classification tool. Is the target deaf, HF sonar can be a classification tool, especially interesting for sumberged.

Originally Posted by Nexus7

Is the target deaf, HF sonar can be a classification tool, especially interesting for sumberged.

HF sonar cannot be detected in DW, unfortunately.
It is not really emitting anything because is programmed as a "visual" sensor.

And yes, of course you can classify by sound, partially.
However, if one is that close, enough NB frequency lines should be visible anyways.

[Nexus7]

And, sound for classification purposes can be the instant classification tool (biologics/mechanics discrimination). Is it my impression or biologics are very rare in DW missions if compared to Sub Command?

Originally Posted by Nexus7

And, sound for classification purposes can be the instant classification tool (biologics/mechanics discrimination). Is it my impression or biologics are very rare in DW missions if compared to Sub Command?

Yes and no.
Stock missions don't have many biologics, as far as I know, but I find them frequently in user made missions, and I very often use them myself.
Shrimp are almost everywhere, and whales aren't that uncommon too, globally, so I mostly put them in.
For biologics discrimination, you can also switch to NB, btw.
No lines = biologic.

The reason why it is just partially good for classification is the lack of sounds per vessel. Not every vessel has its own set of sounds (though this could be done by database and .agg file editing), so a freighter sounds like an oiler for example, but it is good enough to keep warships from merchants apart.

However, as I said, once you can really hear them, you should have enough NB lines present to classify the contact manually.

[Nexus7]

There is an additional difficulty in classifying contacts, the same platform can be in the scenario below different flags, triggering different Rules of Engagement. I realize I am probably skipping a few steps in the current discourse, still it is not seldomly a situation. Well when it is surface you could be able (in theory) to see some crew members in the face at least