I can operate the game. Now how do I operate a sub?

[rainChu]

First of all, hello everybody! I joined quite a while ago, the last time I got in the mood to try a Sub sim (Silent Hunter II). I have this problem, which I've been too shy to talk of, which is why I didn't post this question the last time I was here.

I have Silent Hunter I, I had it as a kid, and I played it a lot, just messing around with the deck gun and stuff. But, I want to now play it properly, through the campaign, to see what I was missing all those years ago.

I tried playing this kind of game more recently, as I said before, but I keep getting flummoxed by an important point: How do I win a battle? What strategies should I take?

Let me say this: I want to learn on a high difficulty. I don't want to play on easy mode, no matter how many times I fail, as long as I eventually prevail. I enjoy learning things without crutches. But, I couldn't do this before- to play the way I like to play- because the game's manual doesn't seem to cover battle strategies. I had to play on easy because I didn't know how to even get started. The wins came too readily and they felt empty, and I had to give up. On harder modes, I couldn't win at all. Not once.

These are a few of the questions I'd really like answered:

• When do I dive/surface? Should I remain under for as long as possible and only surface when I must, or dive when I get a sighting?
• When do I fire a torpedo? I have the game manual, which covers manual operation of the TDC in SH I, which I would like to learn myself (My accuracy with it manually is pretty terrible, but I have the basics down), but what's a good range to fire from? And when do I resort to the deck guns?
• What's the best way to avoid enemy pursual? And enemy fire/depth charges? How should I avoid enemy sonar?
• How should my strategy change as technology advances?

My goal is to head into the Career mode and do the story missions provided, on the game's "realistic" difficulty, which has all the handicaps turned off. I don't mind repeating missions over if I lose them, I enjoy the fulfullment of a hard-earned win. Thank you guys so much in advance for anwering any of these silly beginner's questions!

[SilentPrey]

Greetings!

I will admit to never having played SH1 but I think that extensive time in SH3&4 and a lot of reading qualify me to take a stab at your questions. Sorry it took me four days to stumble across your post.

First; winning battles. That's not really how I would describe what you are trying to do. You're not trying to control an area or even deny control of an area to the enemy. You are trying to destroy enemy assets.

Second; strategies. You want to kill the most important thing you can get a good shot at and then leave before all the people that want to kill you show up. If you can't leave before they get there then get as far under them as you can and try to sneak away that way. You do not want to get in anything resembling a fair fight because they have more guns and more armor than you do.

Diving: You should stay surfaced whenever you can so that you'll have a full battery when you can't. First time you can't is whenever there are planes overhead. You're not out there to shoot at planes and planes are dangerous; dive when they're around. Second, dive whenever a ship is shooting at you or it looks like he's about to start. See above about the more guns and armor. Third, dive once you're in position ahead of your target and waiting for him to sail into your ambush. If he knows you're there waiting for him, he'll go somewhere else or at least start zig-zagging to make it harder to hit him.

Firing torpedoes: You want to be from 500-2000 yards from where the torpedo will impact the target. Ideally the torpedo tube will be pointed straight at the impact sight so that the torpedo won't have to turn when it comes out of the tube. Up to 15 degrees or so of turn isn't a big deal and the torpedo will turn up to 90 without too many issues but a miss is more likely the farther the torpedo has to turn. You actually fire when the target is still the same time of travel from the impact sight as the torpedo is but the TDC is there to figure all that out. You want the target to be broadside to you at the impact sight. So, you're firing position is ideally 500-2000 yards off to the side of the target's track and you'll want to be there long enough before him that he doesn't see you.

Deck guns: You resort to the deck guns when you're trying to finish off an unarmed merchant with no friends. Anything that shoots back is either a torpedo target or something to be avoided. It is possible to sink a merchant with only deck gun fire but that's far from the preferred method.

Avoiding enemies: Avoid pursuit by avoiding detection. Once you fire, get away from the firing point. Typically escorts will follow torpedo wakes back to see if they can find the submarine at the other end. Not being there really helps. If you can't get away; go deep and creep away. Avoiding fire is as simple as not being on the surface inside gun range. Depth charges are dropped where the destroyer thinks the submarine is. He decides that based on where the torpedoes came from, where he heard submarine noises, and where he gets echoes from his active pings. Make less noise by going deep and then going to silent running and slowing your engines down. Active pings are less effective when you're deep and either end of your boat is facing the source. He gets good returns off your broadside. If he's got a good fix on your position during his depth charge run then being deep and going to flank and turning can help dodge some of the charges.

Technology will force you to shoot from farther out to avoid being detected before you fire and to give you more time to run after you fire. Your newer radar will make your estimation of the targets movement much more accurate; his eventual radar detector will let him know where you are because you're using your radar. His sonar will let him find you from farther away, deeper, and keep telling him your position until he's closer during the depth charge run.

Other technology concerns: Both German and American torpedoes had issues at the beginning of the war. German torpedoes had a lower failure rate if they hit the target at a right angle. American torpedoes did better hitting at shallower angles and would fail if they hit straight on. Both of them liked to run too deep sometimes.

This should at least let you know what to look up. Happy hunting!

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by rainChu

These are a few of the questions I'd really like answered:

• When do I dive/surface? Should I remain under for as long as possible and only surface when I must, or dive when I get a sighting?
• When do I fire a torpedo? I have the game manual, which covers manual operation of the TDC in SH I, which I would like to learn myself (My accuracy with it manually is pretty terrible, but I have the basics down), but what's a good range to fire from? And when do I resort to the deck guns?
• What's the best way to avoid enemy pursual? And enemy fire/depth charges? How should I avoid enemy sonar?
• How should my strategy change as technology advances?

It's been a long time since I played, but I'll try to answer your questions.

#1. You can either make a submerged patrol during the day, and recharge batteries at night, or stay surfaced all day. If you are in a dangerous area (meaning airplanes), I would make a submerged patrol. You should usually dive at first sight of enemy ships/planes.

#2. I think you should do ok from 500 to 1500 yds., which was what skippers historically preferred. I would take longer shots as I learned the art of plotting, but it would depend on circumstances. Sometimes a long shot is all you can get. Don't expect every attack to succeed. Also, you should use a spread. RL skippers did, so should you.

#2b. (Guns) Only use guns on things that can't shoot back. However, they are overpowered, so you can sink stuff with them.

#3. For heavily escorted ships, attack from longer range, dive after launch, or make night attacks on surface (this works better with radar). Going deep works better in SH1 than SH4, I think.

#4. I don't recall much about this; I mainly played early war.

Some of the things that helped me in the game:

Understanding the use of the Normal Approach Course.

Taking advantage of Radar, when I got it.

Plotting.... lots of plotting......

Don't use high TC. I was told there is a bug in the game, where you are always detected at high TC.

DO NOT patrol on surface during the day, where enemy aircraft are present (without SD Radar). They will come upon you very quickly. Even if you get under before they bomb you, or they miss, they can vector enemy destroyers to your location.

Don't expect to understand everything right off the bat. Part of the fun of the game is learning things as you go.

[Aktungbby]

rainChu!

[THEBERBSTER]

A Warm Welcome To The Subsim Community > rainChu
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[Jimbuna]

Welcome to SubSim rainChu

[rainChu]

Thanks, everyone! It's 5 in the morning, I just logged in to check my email before crashing. I'm going to take another shot at the game, with your advice in mind, once I've got some leisure time again!

Thanks again, I'll let you know how it goes!

[XenonSurf]

Greetings rainChu,
I think this will answer some of your questions:

http://www.subsowespac.org/silent_hunter_mods.shtml

Take a look at the different articles linked at the end of that page, they are mainly related to tactics with SH1.

Here some quick tips:

Torpedos:
Fire them to a ship's broadside with a 10-20 angle-off from not more than 1500 yards, so they run straight to hit the target, this will reduce Dud's and premature explosions.

Attack:
The Patrol Map is way too easy to my taste: it allows you to anticipate the convoy routes and put yourself in good firing position. I think the real commanders would have given their right leg for such a map :=)

Escape:
That's the real meat in this game, the AI is especially good. Try to get the escort on one side and you on the other side, that's how you are going to escape, it may take hours real time, so be patient...
If you are spotted on the surface, only 1 of the escorts will come straight at you, the others will try to cut your possible escape route. Always think in terms of ESCAPE ANGLE: with one escort you have a big escape angle, with 3 or more escorts you have a very small escape angle because it's hard to present your bow or stern to any escort and not being detected by active sonar.
Personally, I stay at Periscope Depth for as long as possible time after an attack to plot the escort's position. I alway think first about a surface escape. If they are far away you may well succeed at night or with fog.
With a lot of escorts, if one is near but others are more far away, I would sink the nearest one to get some distance and escape on the surface before diving and changing my route. All in all, escaping is a tough thing with more than 3 escorts.

Patrol:
In bad weather conditions and rough seas your sub is substantially SLOW. Instad of wasting your fuel, it may pay off to continue your patrol at 80 feet under, so you may hear with passive sonar the ships in your vicinity. At 2/3 speed under water you are as fast as in bad weather conditiohs on the surface...

Ok, that's it for the moment. I hope this helps you for your start

Greets,
XenonS

[XenonSurf]

Originally Posted by TorpX

(...)

Don't use high TC. I was told there is a bug in the game, where you are always detected at high TC.

Hi TorpX,
you are giving interesting detail here
But what do you mean with the above, do you mean High Persiscope during patrol? This may enhance the range of sight considerably to your advantage.
Thx to clarify,
XenonS

[XenonSurf]

Ah, TC = Time Compression
I think x16 is ok, x32 will 'magically' make the escorts return directly over my position.

As I played again a career with 95% realism I discovered some oddities in game play (In Realism, I leave the depth under keel gauge active to compensate for the patrol map that lacks precise depth data, contrary to real skippers which probably had much better data. This will only cost me 5%).

Here some additional notes:

Straights:
You cannot navigate through some narrow straights (e.g. Sea of Japan) because the depth under keel is not enough even when surfaced. The only way to find out about those straights is to do some recon after setting up a hand-made mission (with the editor).

Bug: Escorts are not aggressive when you do surface escapes:
If you are further away than 2000 yards, escorts that have spotted you and are heading towards you will not fire, but you can fire at them with your deck gun... about 8 hits will reduce their speed enough so you can escape. At some point make a 60° turn to see if they will follow you, if not they have lost contact and go on straight for quite a while.
So, for realism, just DON'T DO all this and dive if they spot you.

Visibility:
Your sub's visibility is not just a factor of your speed, aspect angle and weather/sea conditions. Good trained escorts may spot you at much further distances even at night. As said above be careful with moon light.

Bug: Magic periscope:
You can raise your periscope after dawn / sunrise and still see something (the map will also show precise ship positions).
Bud Gruner clearly stated that scopes were useless at night. Again, for realism, DON'T USE YOUR SCOPE at night.

Bug: Ship ID book
This is well-known: don't leave your ship ID book open or the game will crash (Commander 1.3 edition).


XS

[TorpX]

I certainly agree with the guns complaints. The guns were way too powerful, and could be fired in rough seas. They aren't much better in SH4, really.