The Coup D'etat of November 1963

[Bubblehead1980]

Coming up on the 50th Anniversary of JFK's assassination, amazes me how many people still believe the "official" story when all the evidence clearly contradicts the story. Amazes me how many people have not bothered to research. JFK went up against the power structure of this country, the Military Industrial Complex that Eisenhower warned about, and was murdered for this, Federal Reserve had a hand it in, being part of the power structure threatened by Kennedy.Used to write all this off as conspiracy theory myself but it makes much more sense than that single shooter, like Oswald said, he was just a Patsy. Aside from the reasons, the ballistics just do not back up the one shooter theory.Sad part is, no one will ever be held accountable for this, those involved are dead or will be soon.Those who orchestrated it, Lyndon Johnson, Allen Dulles, dead.Truth needs to come out though so that those involved can be scorned by history, not praised.Johnson was a thug, and should be remembered as such.

[Cybermat47]

Well, it's Doctor Who's 50th Anniversary on the 23rd, so it's not all bad.

R.I.P. JFK.

And Bubbles, do you really have to blame the US government for everything?

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Well, it's Doctor Who's 50th Anniversary on the 23rd, so it's not all bad.

R.I.P. JFK.

And Bubbles, do you really have to blame the US government for everything?

No, but it happens that they are at fault for vast majority of our problems, so they deserve it.

[Sailor Steve]

Sorry, but it has been shown that everything that happened could have been done by one man, and easily so. I agree, Johnson was a thug. That doesn't mean he did it, or Castro, or the CIA, or anybody else. Unfortunately once again all you have is allegation and innuendo, and not a single shred of real, concrete evidence.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Sorry, but it has been shown that everything that happened could have been done by one man, and easily so. I agree, Johnson was a thug. That doesn't mean he did it, or Castro, or the CIA, or anybody else. Unfortunately once again all you have is allegation and innuendo, and not a single shred of real, concrete evidence.

Really? The magic bullet? really? lol no way it could do that. That bullet, being in pristine condition after hitting dense bone etc? don't think so.Governor Connolly was hit in the wrist, Sorry, there is just too much that shows one man, with that slow firing rifle, a moving target, could have did all that damage with two shots(one missed if I recall). The triangulation of crossfire make more sense, with Oswald, thinking he was "in" but was not, set up as the patsy.There are just too many loose ends, and suddenly people started getting knocked off.The guy Tommy Lee Jones played in JFK, Clay Shaw, later confirmed by Richard Helms to have worked for the CIA.

The motives, means, and opportunity were there and ballistics support multiple shooters, as well as various witnesses, some who were suppressed and others who died mysteriously, it all fits and makes much more sense than a lone nut managed to pull off shots many skilled marksmen could not.Seriously, how did they ID Oswald so quickly? never made any sense.No prints were found on the gun initially, then suddenly after Oswald is dead, they found a palm print.


Kennedy was standing up to the old guard in the CIA and the federal reserve, etc they decided to off him, Johnson was probably not the ringleader but believe he knew about it and signed off on it.Kennedy was screwing with power and money, possibly naive on the dangerous it presented to himself or figured they would never go "that far" or perhaps since he felt he would never live to be an old man anyways due to health problems, did not scare him to push it as much.

Motives aside, the ballistics just don't make any sense for a single shooter, where as a triangulation of crossfire, would account for so much, and thus means this was much more than a lone nut with a cheap rifle, making some impossible shots.

[Armistead]

I have to agree with Bubble, the entire thing stinks.

"A Congressional Investigation from 1976-1979 found a "probable conspiracy" in the assassination of John F. Kennedy and recommended the Justice Department investigate further. As of 1991, the Justice Department has done nothing. The files of the House Select Committee on Assassinations are locked away until the year 2029."

If it was just Oswald, strange the files won't be released until everyone involved is long dead. It certainly has no bearing on our national security now.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Really? The magic bullet? really? lol no way it could do that. That bullet, being in pristine condition after hitting dense bone etc?

Several test bullets were fired into a variety of materials during the investigation and since, and most of them were in similar condition. Yes way it could do that lol. (Yes, I'm mocking your style and attitude, but not your thesis).

Governor Connolly was hit in the wrist, Sorry, there is just too much that shows one man, with that slow firing rifle, a moving target, could have did all that damage with two shots(one missed if I recall).

Not at all. Jacketed rifle bullets are perfectly capable of penetrating two bodies.

The triangulation of crossfire make more sense

Then you have the problem of where the other shot(s) was fired from. Every other position has been shown to be either populated or out of the line of fire.

The motives, means, and opportunity were there and ballistics support multiple shooters

Only because you want them to. In fact they can easily support either supposition.

as well as various witnesses, some who were suppressed and others who died mysteriously

Very convenient. How "mysteriously" is mysteriously?

it all fits and makes much more sense than a lone nut managed to pull off shots many skilled marksmen could not.

There you are totally off base. Oswald qualified as a sharpshooter while in the marines. In a later test his rating was reduced to marksman. He also practiced with that rifle at the local range.

Second, the range is given as 88 yards. I have put five bullets into a target at 100 yards in a handful of seconds, with my Springfield, with no scope. I consider myself an average shot at best, but with a scope I'm confident that I could have made those shots.

Third, the event has been recreated many times, and every time a trained marksman was able to make the shots. So your claim of "a skilled marksman could not" has been proven wrong more than once.

Seriously, how did they ID Oswald so quickly? never made any sense.

When the police sealed off the building they interrogated several employees, including the boss, who all saw Oswald in the building around the time of the assassination. When they took a head count Oswald's superviser noted that Oswald was the only empoyee missing.

No prints were found on the gun initially, then suddenly after Oswald is dead, they found a palm print.

The partial palm print was found on the underside of the upper barrel, which is covered by the stock. This is consistent with Oswald handling the rifle while disassembled. Nothing unusual at all for someone who likely took the gun apart on a regular basis.

Of course in the interest of the other side anyone could have used the rifle to do the shooting, and Oswald's print would have been there all along. Also it is certainly possible that the print was a plant made after the fact, or that it was never there at all.

Kennedy was standing up to the old guard in the CIA and the federal reserve, etc they decided to off him, Johnson was probably not the ringleader but believe he knew about it and signed off on it.Kennedy was screwing with power and money, possibly naive on the dangerous it presented to himself or figured they would never go "that far" or perhaps since he felt he would never live to be an old man anyways due to health problems, did not scare him to push it as much.

All conjecture.

Motives aside, the ballistics just don't make any sense for a single shooter, where as a triangulation of crossfire, would account for so much, and thus means this was much more than a lone nut with a cheap rifle, making some impossible shots.

Again, the shots were not only possible, but fairly easy for someone with Oswald's training. Also you need to show where the other shooters could be in the heavy population watching the motorcade. So far it's all been speculation.

Don't get me wrong. I don't deny that any conspiracy is possible, but I like to see more evidence than just "could haves". Once again you seem to be absolutely convinced of your claims and unwilling to accept any other possibility.

[TarJak]

Bubbles you are talking bollocks again

Have a read of Mortal Error then report back. Secret Service Agent Hickey in the chase car is still the most likely candidate for the one who fired the fatal round. The ballistic evidence outlined in that book is far more compelling and comprehensive than any other ive seen. It also adequately explains that the so called pristine bullet was certainly not pristine. Also the so called magic bullet was not magic at all and followed a trajectory from Oswalds window through Kennedy the jump seat in front of him amd Governor Connelly.

This site outlines the evidence nicely: http://www.sbs.com.au/thesmokinggun

The Secret Service haste to move the body and the way the autopsy was carried out and the presidents brain going missing are far more important facts than the fictional shooter on the grassy knoll or some bloke with an umbrella.

[Dread Knot]

Meh. Color me unimpressed.

What strikes me is that in 50 years no conspiracy theorist has come any closer to solving Kennedy's murder. That's because they are adamant in saying it is not their goal to do so. Instead they opt for the exoneration of Lee Harvey Oswald and the indictment of some massive, multi-headed, overlordly conspiracy that they can't even agree on. They pick away at the admittedly flawed Warren Commission but can never come up with a narrative of their own that explains all, or find the smoking gun ( or memo or deathbed confession) that finally blows the lid off. I predict 50 years from there will still be JFK conspiracy theories and Oswald will still be the only known culprit. Just less people will care.

Why, if the "Powers That Be" determined that the President must die, did they do so in full view of the public where it could be independently observed and recorded, in a way that conspiracy theorists claim was so very obviously a murder?

There are other methods for taking down a president you don't like.

Food poisoning. Scandal. Accident.

This is what I find so silly about the whole JFK assassination scenario as a conspiracy. It's not that the alleged conspirators chose the silliest way to shoot the President in public; it's that they chose the silliest way to get rid of him -- by shooting him in public.

But who framed Roger Rabbit?

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

But who framed Roger Rabbit?

Oswald Rabbit obviously.

[yubba]

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

Oswald Rabbit obviously.

Now that's funny, can't seem to get a word in edge wise here server always busy or is that another,, con spear assiey,,, I'm well,, glad, some took up the good fight,,, I salute you carry on. and how about getting that Pt done I don't want to die of old age before that's done Nic.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

Meh. Color me unimpressed.

What strikes me is that in 50 years no conspiracy theorist has come any closer to solving Kennedy's murder. That's because they are adamant in saying it is not their goal to do so. Instead they opt for the exoneration of Lee Harvey Oswald and the indictment of some massive, multi-headed, overlordly conspiracy that they can't even agree on. They pick away at the admittedly flawed Warren Commission but can never come up with a narrative of their own that explains all, or find the smoking gun ( or memo or deathbed confession) that finally blows the lid off. I predict 50 years from there will still be JFK conspiracy theories and Oswald will still be the only known culprit. Just less people will care.

Why, if the "Powers That Be" determined that the President must die, did they do so in full view of the public where it could be independently observed and recorded, in a way that conspiracy theorists claim was so very obviously a murder?

There are other methods for taking down a president you don't like.

Food poisoning. Scandal. Accident.

This is what I find so silly about the whole JFK assassination scenario as a conspiracy. It's not that the alleged conspirators chose the silliest way to shoot the President in public; it's that they chose the silliest way to get rid of him -- by shooting him in public.

Watch the video I posted, it pieces everything together.

Why did they do it in full of public? Because they knew the American public was overall gullible and likely did not take into account people like Zapruder as home movie cameras were still not the norm back them.Not like today where everyone has HD video on their cell phones.Plus, the men who likely orchestrated this, LBJ, Dulles, Helms etc had a high degree of disdain for the public and knew that with smoke and mirrors, president in a hostile state, a proper story with a patsy, they could win, especially in those days when public still have a naive trust in the government, which unfortunately many still have today, much like an abused wife who just can't stop loving his abusive partner and will not leave, people who still trust the US government are much like that.I understand it, no one wants to believe something like this could happen in the United States, this happens everywhere else but no here.

Oh you are wrong, eventually the truth will come out.There are reasons files were sealed until 30 or so years into this century, to give people time to die off.Amazes me how people will still blindly support the one shooter theory when evidence contradicts it.There dozens of witnesses who report fire from grassy knoll, the ballistics dispute the "one bullet theory" and like Jim Garrison said in the JFK Movie "Government may try to explain this bullet with theoretical physics, but theoretical physics could prove than an elephant could hang off a cliff by his tail wrapped around a daisy" lol, it was junk science used to muddy the waters on an misinformed, naive public.Most people can not tell what the federal reserve is, what it does, how it was formed, and how powerful it is.Most people only know the name Dulles due to the airport, they don't understand just how hated JFK was by the establishment.They don't understand, mainly because so much time has passed just how powerful these men were.J Edgar Hoover hated JFK and RFK.LBJ hated them as both and certainly did the bidding of the powers that be once the coup was completed. This had to be an inside job, since parade route was also changed to what would be a suitable ambush site.


The most likely scenario is that JFK was murdered in a plot initiated by Dulles, Helms, and federal reserve with the approval of LBJ.The assassins were likely cia trained or even mafia assets.Oswald, who had been trained by the ONI, was likely lead to believe he was part of an operation, and made the patsy, perhaps realized it and thus why he fled as it was unlikely no evidence to support he actually fired a shot, the palm print LATER found on the rifle is highly suspect, no chain of custody.

One other plausible scenario, is that a massive intelligence failure occurred, the plot lead back to Castro or Soviets and to avoid what would be a demand for war, it was covered up, which could also explain the secrecy to this day.

Sad part is no one will ever really be held accountable for his murder and an overthrow of the elected US government but truth and come out, can ensure history books read correctly and make sure the legacies of men like LBJ, Dulles, etc depict them for the traitors and thugs that they were.

[Bilge_Rat]

I sort of agree with BH that there are a lot of unanswered questions about the assassination, including the "magic bullet" theory. Yes, it's possible, but it is a stretch.

Oliver Stone's "JFK", although it does go over the deep end does a good job about covering all the issues.

What has pretty much convinced me that Oswald acted alone is the fact that 50 years on, no documents or witnesses have appeared which support a conspiracy. Even in the Mafia or the Soviet Union, eventually someone talks about what happened.

p.s.- I am just barely old enough to remember the event. I was 8 at the time and did not understand what was going on, but I remember my parents having the TV on all the time and being very sad.

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

What has pretty much convinced me that Oswald acted alone is the fact that 50 years on, no documents or witnesses have appeared which support a conspiracy. Even in the Mafia or the Soviet Union, eventually someone talks about what happened.

Same here. People talk. They become greedy or guilty or disenchanted. Loyalties shift. Death threats don't work on people who are already dead or about to die. A substantial number of people who would have had to be in on such a conspiracy have died. Yet among these, we find no safe deposit boxes with incriminating photos, memos or documents, no accounts of deathbed confessions. No such evidence sent abroad to a foreign nation where they could get an airing.