It makes my heart cry...

[vincentz]

Sorry for the rant, but I recently got UBM in the hope that some of the obvious bugs would be fixed, but instead it brings even more.

Did the devs actually ever play the game????

Some of the more -bugs are :

AA gun in bathtub conning tower = Impossible to aim, as the railing blocks the view.... I mean, wtf!!!

Max officer restriction = makes it impossible to promote. To make it possible 5 or 6 officers has to be sacked..... I mean, WTF!!!

No "normal speed" hotkey = so you just got radio'ed that a convoy is passing in front of your nose, and panicly tries to hit numpad- 10 times to be able to set a new coarse before the convoy is bye bye.... I mean, the hole keysetup and lack of customization. WTF!!!!!!

Lack of AI = Especially the destroyers are a piece of cake, and offers absolutely no resistance even on 100% difficulty, often not even firering if the sub is surfaced. If submerged they will do the excact same depthcharge-run and turn, ending up with a broadside and 12 knots just waiting for that torpedo..... WAY to easy, and another WTF!!!!!

Blind and dum gunners = The deckgun crew, if left to themself, cant hit a barndoor from 30 yards. The player however can hit 3000+ yards with every single shot..... I mean WTF!!!!

Bad interface/gameplay = f.ex. if trying to follow a convoy at a distance (waiting for better weather or similar) you get 10000 soundcontacts, which force you to hit numpad+ sooo many times, that when a destroyer has spotted you, you are already on the way to davy jones locker as the warning that you were being shelled was between nr 8647 and 8649 of soundcontacts. WTF!!!!

More bad interface = The torpedoes you launch is hidden behind position keeper display. WTF! The Rec manual is hiding the switch for torpedo settings. WTF! The slow/fast torpedo setting is per default set to slow. Does anyone ever shoot slow torpedoes??? WTF! The Clock is too big while the compass too small. WTF! Its lacking the more obvious hotkeys. Especially the "send xxx to TDC". WTF!

The Rec manual... jesus christ... atleast it could have post-its for different ship classes, so every time a new ship has to be identified it wouldnt take forever, plus maybe a page 1 with all the ships listed, for those easy recognized ships. The hole recmanual stinks in soo many ways (too bright at night. too big. not show real info. too clumbsy. too slow to flip pages etc etc) WTF!!!!!

The Airpatrols... You know what I'm talking about.... WTF!!!!

The Campaign... OMG, dont get me started there

and the list could go on and on and on and on.

Every time I dust off SH4 and reinstall it, I look at the fancy graphics and the great potential, but is turned so much off by all the hideous programming that I almost get tears in my eyes. I'm a big fan of subsims (silent service, aces of the deep, das boot, SH2 and SH3), but seeing how f.... up SH4 are in soo many ways, have made me decide I would NEVER try SH5. I just dont have the faith in the devs anymore....

//end of rant

[Sailor Steve]

I take it you've never played it with any of the supermods? Each and every one of them makes it a whole new game. Every single one of the problems you complain about was fixed at least three years ago. So instead of ranting about how bad the stock game is why don't you load up TMO or RFB (or OM if u-boats are your preference)? But don't come crying here about problems that are already long since taken care of.

[vincentz]

I certainly didnt mean to offend the forum or the modmakers. There certainly are some fixes for some of it, but its sad that a game cant stand on its own and needs to be fixed by the consumers to be playable. I bet you wouldnt want to buy a milk in the supermarket and then find out when you got home that you needed to pasturize it yourself, nor would you be happy buying a car only to come home and find that your brakes are wrongly installed, and that you have to "hack" them yourself so the car can run acceptable. Most computer games are actually quite playable when released, but the Silent Hunter series is not in that category. edit : (even 3 years later)

I do use a couple of mods and have made quite a few myself (and used tons of hours on it), but not all is fixed in the supermods, and they are by no means bugfree themself. (I only tried TMO and RSRD)

My reason for ranting is that this game could have been amazing, but is utterly destroyed by the annoyances (a word?) that is "build" into the game.

but.... a piece of advice please :

which mod fixes best the Blind Deckguncrew, Dumb Destroyer AI, GUI and Hydrophonespam, while enhancing the Campaign feeling?
I guess those are the things that annoys me the most.


edit : BTW, I do know that most of the things are fixed by mods. I fixed many myself. I could also start a list of stuff that hasnt been fixed and probably wont since its in the exe. Env/vol Sound problems (on the 3 different computers I have played it on), graphical glitches, savegame issues, CO2 bug, office crew problems etc etc....

[Sailor Steve]

Everything you say is true. I guess my problem is that all of the comparisons and the complaint about modders needing to fixe the game were all said so many times back when the game was new that it seems late in the game to be saying them again, at least to me. It's never going to be fixed by the company, and this is even more true of SH5. We just have to live with it and do what we can to make it better.

My reason for ranting is that this game could have been amazing, but is utterly destroyed by the annoyances (a word?) that is "build" into the game.

You're absolutely right there, and there's nothing I can say.

which mod fixes best the Blind Deckguncrew, Dumb Destroyer AI, GUI and Hydrophonespam, while enhancing the Campaign feeling?
I guess those are the things that annoys me the most.

I hate to be useless after all I said, but I have the personal problem that I have to play in a linear fashion, and since I never seem to get past 1940 I am forever playing u-boats. I've heard that TMO's destroyers can be downright frightening, but I've never played it so that I can't help with. There are many who have, however, and you can expect help with that soon, I'm sure.

What graphic glitches are you getting, specifically? Gamesave problems can be minimized by following the rules of not saving submerged or near other ships, but I don't know of any real cure. The CO2 bug can be overridden by saving the game and reloading it. Annoying for sure, but at least it can be dealt with.

What office crew problems are you having?

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by vincentz

I'm a big fan of subsims (silent service, aces of the deep, das boot, SH2 and SH3), but seeing how f.... up SH4 are in soo many ways, have made me decide I would NEVER try SH5. I just dont have the faith in the devs anymore....

//end of rant

That's why you need faith in modders.....and you really should give SH5 a try (modded). It will definitely surprise you

[vincentz]

Not getting far into the campaign is an issue I have myself.

I always start from the beginning, and end up quitting because of a bug before I even get radar. The CO2 bug I wasnt even aware of before I got UBM (which I just got, which in turn I guess is why I'm ranting) It places a nice warning onscreen. I wonder how many of my fleet boats have previously been mysteriously lost at sea, when all they had to do was open the hatch.

The graphical glitches are numerous, but the worst ones look like big round smoke "bubbles" that appear close'ish to the ship on top of the water when I have spotted a ship far far away. Also the lack of funnel smoke. Compared to the background menu movie, I have no smoke coming from the funnels. I have however smoke from fires and explosions. The screen also flickers sometimes (I have a Nvidia 9800 GT which should run it ok) and the conning tower helmsmen are transparent in a scary way, though not as scare as when they loose their eyes. The nightsky looks almost like Northern Lights sometimes (I think its a fog/moonshine godrays issue) and the raindrops just looks silly. the raindrops I fixed with websters smaller raindrops.

The savegame issues appear out of nowhere, but it might be helpfull to save without ships around and surfaced, though its usually in close encounters a save is needed. I have made a habit of keeping 5-10 savegames, named after location/action such as Cruising/Hunting/Convoy/Attacking/Harbor/Office etc etc, but sometimes a hunt and kill can take hours (I play 100% realism except event cam) and reloading can be a mood killer...

The office crew problem was related to changing subs and the deck crew. I cant remember exactly what happened, but I think they got bugged, so the deckgun couldnt be used if changed to Bow position. It looks like they might have fixed it in UBM, though I havent tested yet.

These are the issues that I can think about on the top of my head, but many more lurks in the deep waters.....

[Armistead]

Not sure if you've tried the latest versions of TMO, but I don't have those issues, but I do run some other mods with it for more realism.

Try OTC with TMO, get a fairly realistic scope and dials with working radar.

Many shoot slow torps at the beginning of war as it helps with duds, only takes a sec. to click.

Deckgunners suck unless within 3000 yards with a special ability man, but with TMO now you have to be careful, the enemy deckgun range is around 10,000 yards, merchants can really hurt you...It's more realistic, seldom did a sub take on a armed ship with a deckgun, wasn't worth the risk.

RSRD is a wonderful campaign mod, got about 90% of the war scripted to perfection, not sure of your problems with it.

Planes aren't much of a problem for me like stock, unless in a heavy campaign area.


TMO has an auto ship ID button, basically your crew does it for you in a click.

AI is deadly in TMO, but if you run RSRD with it it does tone down the crew ratings, fairly easy to edit them back to vet or even elite using notepad, still even with RSRD, TMO's sensors for the AI are strong and a few mods exist with small fixes to get some TMO settings back.

Instead of trying to nil time compression with th minus key, hit F2 or any button that takes you to a sub station, with one click compression is normal...always been this way.

[vincentz]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

That's why you need faith in modders.....and you really should give SH5 a try (modded). It will definitely surprise you

I guess I have to try it sometime. I like the idea of moving through the sub, not sure I wouldnt get bored when have to make quick switches. I also have a tendency to like german subs more (I guess Das Boot movie influenced me ). I read that recently the DRM has an offline mode, and even though I'm constantly connected to the internet, I really dont like games that has to be connected all the time (my connection is really unstable, and I fear for when I forget to save regularly and it will "crash" because of an outside factor such as that.

Originally Posted by Armistead

1) Not sure if you've tried the latest versions of TMO, but I don't have those issues, but I do run some other mods with it for more realism.

2) Try OTC with TMO, get a fairly realistic scope and dials with working radar.

3) Many shoot slow torps at the beginning of war as it helps with duds, only takes a sec. to click.

4) Deckgunners suck unless within 3000 yards with a special ability man, but with TMO now you have to be careful, the enemy deckgun range is around 10,000 yards, merchants can really hurt you...It's more realistic, seldom did a sub take on a armed ship with a deckgun, wasn't worth the risk.

5) RSRD is a wonderful campaign mod, got about 90% of the war scripted to perfection, not sure of your problems with it.

6) Planes aren't much of a problem for me like stock, unless in a heavy campaign area.


7) TMO has an auto ship ID button, basically your crew does it for you in a click.

8) AI is deadly in TMO, but if you run RSRD with it it does tone down the crew ratings, fairly easy to edit them back to vet or even elite using notepad, still even with RSRD, TMO's sensors for the AI are strong and a few mods exist with small fixes to get some TMO settings back.

9) Instead of trying to nil time compression with th minus key, hit F2 or any button that takes you to a sub station, with one click compression is normal...always been this way.

1) Nope, havent tried the latest version of TMO as I just got UBM, so I'll definately give it a try, though if I remember correctly I have to back up data folder as even with Joneses GME it would corrupt it if trying to uninstall (?).

2) I'll give it a go.

3) Actually when I remember back when I started, I did shoot slow torps. I would take some targets far away and then fire fast ones. Then take middle targets and shoot slow ones, and then take the short target with fast ones. With the time it took, almost all of the torpedoes would strike within a timespan of 10-20 seconds. Fireworks ftw.
With 100% realism it takes too long time to shift between the targets, so now I usually pop up in the middle of a convoy start shooting left and right
Though its actually 3-5 clicks for me on a screen that usually doesnt respond quickly with all the smoke n flames. If anyone knows if the setting can be changed (menu_1024_768 perhaps) then please let me know.

4) That's nice. I don't mind popping up and finish off a single merchant that's already engulfed in flames. But to be able to take on 3 destroyers and then sink the rest of the convoy with the boomstick is a bit... overkill

5) I did like RSRD, and iirc didnt have any issues with it. TBH I dont have a big issue about the campaign on the map, but more with the execution of the gameplay campaign as such. I like the ladder effect (starting small, then get better equipment and subs), but in SH4 you can start with 6 (six!) different subs at the very beginning of the game. I used to love when new equipment/subs became available in SH3, but now its not important anymore as there are some hardcore subs available "for free" at the start of the game.

6) I'm not sure exactly what happened, but on my third patrol there were almost no planes, so maybe its "fixed" in UBM.

7) + 9) I redid almost all of the keys myself. The only key thats not mapped is Æ and most of them have a SHIFT function too.

8) dl newest version of TMO and RSRD

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by vincentz

I guess I have to try it sometime. I like the idea of moving through the sub, not sure I wouldnt get bored when have to make quick switches. I also have a tendency to like german subs more (I guess Das Boot movie influenced me ). I read that recently the DRM has an offline mode, and even though I'm constantly connected to the internet, I really dont like games that has to be connected all the time (my connection is really unstable, and I fear for when I forget to save regularly and it will "crash" because of an outside factor such as that.



1) Nope, havent tried the latest version of TMO as I just got UBM, so I'll definately give it a try, though if I remember correctly I have to back up data folder as even with Joneses GME it would corrupt it if trying to uninstall (?).

2) I'll give it a go.

3) Actually when I remember back when I started, I did shoot slow torps. I would take some targets far away and then fire fast ones. Then take middle targets and shoot slow ones, and then take the short target with fast ones. With the time it took, almost all of the torpedoes would strike within a timespan of 10-20 seconds. Fireworks ftw.
With 100% realism it takes too long time to shift between the targets, so now I usually pop up in the middle of a convoy start shooting left and right
Though its actually 3-5 clicks for me on a screen that usually doesnt respond quickly with all the smoke n flames. If anyone knows if the setting can be changed (menu_1024_768 perhaps) then please let me know.

4) That's nice. I don't mind popping up and finish off a single merchant that's already engulfed in flames. But to be able to take on 3 destroyers and then sink the rest of the convoy with the boomstick is a bit... overkill

5) I did like RSRD, and iirc didnt have any issues with it. TBH I dont have a big issue about the campaign on the map, but more with the execution of the gameplay campaign as such. I like the ladder effect (starting small, then get better equipment and subs), but in SH4 you can start with 6 (six!) different subs at the very beginning of the game. I used to love when new equipment/subs became available in SH3, but now its not important anymore as there are some hardcore subs available "for free" at the start of the game.

6) I'm not sure exactly what happened, but on my third patrol there were almost no planes, so maybe its "fixed" in UBM.

7) + 9) I redid almost all of the keys myself. The only key thats not mapped is Æ and most of them have a SHIFT function too.

8) dl newest version of TMO and RSRD

The game even at 1.5 is bugged and unrealistic, no doubt I agree with all you said involving stock and Ubi. I shelved the game in one week, came back months later and found mods and played it for dang near two years. I get bored with it now at times and take breaks, but OTC has got me playing again.

With TMO and RSRD you do start with older subs and new stuff such as radar, guns, etc, come available near the historic date.

Trust me, you won't be taking on one DD on the surface with TMO unless you have death wish, as stated they can blast you from far away and why your gunners suck, seems theirs don't, nor will you be popping up in the middle of convoys, most merchants are armed, even the heavy machine guns can do your sub in.

Planes can still be too much with RSRD, not sure if anyone has made a mod to work with RSRD..some state they have, but the ones I checked ruined much of the plane traffic itself. Again, you can go in and edit yourself. Still, I only have problems with planes in certain areas and try to stay away from heavy plane areas.

I always have a back up of my data folder, but never had a problem uninstalling TMO with jsg and reloading it. I and others constantly make small tweaks and test them and never had the base game get corrupt. Heck, I run about 14 mods and often have to back them all out. Seems maybe twice my base game got corrupted, but not to TMO, more stacking and testing mods that didn't work with each other...why it's smart to keep a data backup.

Overall, we have 100's of mods, it takes some time, but you can tweak and tune and find the play style you want...just be careful

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Trust me, you won't be taking on one DD on the surface with TMO unless you have death wish, as stated they can blast you from far away and why your gunners suck, seems theirs don't, nor will you be popping up in the middle of convoys, most merchants are armed, even the heavy machine guns can do your sub in.

Not surprising, considering that a submarine has a tube sight mounted to the gun, requiring the gunner to estimate the range, whereas a destroyer, in addition to at least three guns, also has a dedicated fire control center with a stereoscopic rangefinder. While the merchants don't have any better sights than a submarine they are a much more stable platform. And the game is unrealistic in the other direction, since one good hit on a submarine's pressure hull can render it not a submarine anymore.

TMO has it as it should be, and RFB is not far behind.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by vincentz

I read that recently the DRM has an offline mode, and even though I'm constantly connected to the internet, I really dont like games that has to be connected all the time (my connection is really unstable, and I fear for when I forget to save regularly and it will "crash" because of an outside factor such as that.

You read correctly - SH5 is now DRM-free, which is why after waiting more than a year I finally bought it.

1) Nope, havent tried the latest version of TMO as I just got UBM, so I'll definately give it a try, though if I remember correctly I have to back up data folder as even with Joneses GME it would corrupt it if trying to uninstall (?).

I use MultiSH4 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1110 to have separate installations of the game, one for TMO, one for RFB and one for OM. As I stated earlier I seem to be forever stuck in 1939, so I play the U-boat side exclusively for the time being, though I have played a little with RFB. That way you don't have to uninstall anything. Also JSGME ocassionally doesn't uninstall all of a mod, but for the most part it works as advertised.

3) Actually when I remember back when I started, I did shoot slow torps. I would take some targets far away and then fire fast ones. Then take middle targets and shoot slow ones, and then take the short target with fast ones. With the time it took, almost all of the torpedoes would strike within a timespan of 10-20 seconds. Fireworks ftw.
With 100% realism it takes too long time to shift between the targets, so now I usually pop up in the middle of a convoy start shooting left and right

You're a better man than I am. I can't target to save my life, so I have to use Auto-targetting and miss SH3's WE Assist mode.

Though its actually 3-5 clicks for me on a screen that usually doesnt respond quickly with all the smoke n flames. If anyone knows if the setting can be changed (menu_1024_768 perhaps) then please let me know.

I have a very old XP system and still get pretty good frame rates, mainly by turning off some of the graphics effects. You can also adjust parameters in your graphics card, and if your system is newer you might try the 4GB patch, which forces the system to use more of the available memory.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=717

4) That's nice. I don't mind popping up and finish off a single merchant that's already engulfed in flames. But to be able to take on 3 destroyers and then sink the rest of the convoy with the boomstick is a bit... overkill

It's much more fun when they're actually dangerous.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Not surprising, considering that a submarine has a tube sight mounted to the gun, requiring the gunner to estimate the range, whereas a destroyer, in addition to at least three guns, also has a dedicated fire control center with a stereoscopic rangefinder. While the merchants don't have any better sights than a submarine they are a much more stable platform. And the game is unrealistic in the other direction, since one good hit on a submarine's pressure hull can render it not a submarine anymore.

TMO has it as it should be, and RFB is not far behind.

Still a lil unrealistic, as stated one shell from a 5inch gun would usually do a sub in or it's back to base, even with TMO you can take several hits and stay on patrol.

I played last night, been awhile..Had no radar early war and flanking a convoy about 9000 yards in lite fog and a escort blasted me, probably scored several hits before I got under, some flooding, 4 others joined in and finished me off......seems i lost some skills not playing.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by vincentz

Sorry for the rant, but I recently got UBM in the hope that some of the obvious bugs would be fixed, but instead it brings even more.

Did the devs actually ever play the game????

Some of the more -bugs are :

Okay! I'll take a whack at it, shoot!

Originally Posted by vincentz

AA gun in bathtub conning tower = Impossible to aim, as the railing blocks the view.... I mean, wtf!!!

Stupid but non-consequential. You have no business shooting at planes anyway. The gun works perfectly well as a noisemaker and place to hang laundry. If you're being attacked by a plane do like the real guys did. Get the heck below and dive! Yelling "ratatatatatatatat!" at the plane was more effective in real life than shooting at them anyway.

Originally Posted by vincentz

Max officer restriction = makes it impossible to promote. To make it possible 5 or 6 officers has to be sacked..... I mean, WTF!!!

You promote where the game lets you and leave the rest in your pocket. Like you said, there's no advantage to having a crew full of officers anyway and it would never have happened in a real sub. Why make is so in the game?

Originally Posted by vincentz

No "normal speed" hotkey = so you just got radio'ed that a convoy is passing in front of your nose, and panicly tries to hit numpad- 10 times to be able to set a new coarse before the convoy is bye bye.... I mean, the hole keysetup and lack of customization. WTF!!!!!!

In the stock game, what's wrong with <backspace> (pauses) then mash <numpad +> shazzam! You're instantly at 1x. You had two keystrokes there, a major feat of manual dexterity. You were probably better off hitting <numpad -> 11 times. Never mind......

Originally Posted by vincentz

Lack of AI = Especially the destroyers are a piece of cake, and offers absolutely no resistance even on 100% difficulty, often not even firering if the sub is surfaced. If submerged they will do the excact same depthcharge-run and turn, ending up with a broadside and 12 knots just waiting for that torpedo..... WAY to easy, and another WTF!!!!!

I don't know how the stock game behaves, it's been to long. Try that cute stuff in TMO, I dare you! Hint: in order to see him 12 knots, broadside and waiting for that torpedo, you must survive the depth charge run at periscope depth. That's a tall order pardner....

Originally Posted by vincentz

Blind and dum gunners = The deckgun crew, if left to themself, cant hit a barndoor from 30 yards. The player however can hit 3000+ yards with every single shot..... I mean WTF!!!!

In real life deck guns were for sinking sampans, plugging floating mines and hanging laundry. Shooting it out with escorts was just plain stupid and merchants were armed better than submarines. You needed a hundred hits to sink the merchie and one hole in the pressure hull and you were on a one-way all expenses paid trip to Davey Jones' locker. You do the math.

Originally Posted by vincentz

Bad interface/gameplay = f.ex. if trying to follow a convoy at a distance (waiting for better weather or similar) you get 10000 soundcontacts, which force you to hit numpad+ sooo many times, that when a destroyer has spotted you, you are already on the way to davy jones locker as the warning that you were being shelled was between nr 8647 and 8649 of soundcontacts. WTF!!!!

That's just bad planning. You know how far away you have to be to be below the horizon. Your radar range is much further. Keep them below the horizon. Problem solved.

Originally Posted by vincentz

More bad interface = The torpedoes you launch is hidden behind position keeper display. WTF! The Rec manual is hiding the switch for torpedo settings. WTF! The slow/fast torpedo setting is per default set to slow. Does anyone ever shoot slow torpedoes??? WTF! The Clock is too big while the compass too small. WTF! Its lacking the more obvious hotkeys. Especially the "send xxx to TDC". WTF!

The first observation makes no sense. The position keeper is a pop-out on the left side of the screen. The torpedo launch buttons pop out on the right. How can one get in front of the other? The recognition manual is meant to be closed unless you are using it. Torpedoes have to be set either fast or slow initially. So long as they are always one way or the other what's the problem? There was no digital input for just about anything in WWII. Numbers were set by turning dials.

Originally Posted by vincentz

The Rec manual... jesus christ... atleast it could have post-its for different ship classes, so every time a new ship has to be identified it wouldnt take forever, plus maybe a page 1 with all the ships listed, for those easy recognized ships. The hole recmanual stinks in soo many ways (too bright at night. too big. not show real info. too clumbsy. too slow to flip pages etc etc) WTF!!!!!

Yer preaching to the choir there. But as long as you have radar the recognition manual is garbage anyway. Lighten the boat and toss it overboard.

Originally Posted by vincentz

The Airpatrols... You know what I'm talking about.... WTF!!!!

This is an artifact of time compression and not a real problem. It is true that the stock game spawns planes out of thin air when there is nowhere for them to come from. RSRD fixes that nicely. I'm still getting swarmed in The Slot, late 1942 playing TMO+RSRD. That's authentic.

Originally Posted by vincentz

The Campaign... OMG, dont get me started there

Run RSRD and you'll be happy there. The stock game doesn't have a campaign, just basically randomly generated targets in unrealistic configurations. Naked TMO is better. RSRD is paradise.

The fact is, SH4 is about as good as we're going to get under the present business model. Since the game company is producing a drink coaster with no residual value, they can sink only so many resources into a simulation. This limits development resources in time and people to levels below what it takes to get what you and I want.

The only way to improve our situation is to trash the disposable drink coaster model of game production. Games must somehow produce an income stream so development can continue for years and years, not several months.

The subscription model accomplishes two things. It makes defects in the game fixable on the hard coded level by keeping developers hired and devoted to a single game for years. They can retro-fit and release patches, improvements, fixes to all players on a regular basis forever. And let's look at the money angle. We're paying $50 for a game. If we pay $5.00 per month, less than we pay to drink soft drinks we discard in the toilet every day, we've paid the game company $60, just for the first year! They've increased their profits!

Version numbers are a thing of the past. We just have one game--Silent Hunter and it gets better year after year. Old features are retained. Bugs are eliminated. Features are added as computing power increases. Programmers have stable employment. Gamers pay because they're happy. The game goes south and they just quit. Customers are paying the company to produce a great game. And they get it.

Until we get from here to there, what you see is what they give. Each game breaks things that worked in the last version and fixes a couple of things. Higher version numbers just mean more problems to deal with. Finally the game company says "I guess people just don't want to buy World War II submarine simulations any more" and they quit altogether, victims of their own stupidity and shortsightedness.

[WernherVonTrapp]

That's a lot of WTFs.

[Daniel Prates]

Originally Posted by WernherVonTrapp

That's a lot of WTFs.