When SH4 become monotonous

[Armistead]

I seldom play anymore, for me the game has become
monotonous. It feels like doing the same thing over and over. I think
the biggest issue for me is if you play long enough you basically know exactly how the AI will react. My evasion tactics are usually the same.
Seems I can always sink unrealistic tonnage. I went as far to edit most escorts to elite in RSRD, but take the large TF I attacked last night, sunk 3 carriers the first attack.

So lately I'm trying to mod for myself a better game in hopes of making it more realistic.

The biggest flaw I find in the game is the AI's response when it senses you, almost always the group slows down and the evasive zigs are so short they don't matter. In reality the group would head off at top speed.
What CV or BB would slow down when under attack? I'm searching and playing with settings, but have yet to determine what causes a group to respond this way. Sometimes convoys will break up in different directions, rare, but once is awhile a TF will keep speed or even gain it....

Right now my goal is to make the sub more fragile, which I've done with damage zones and crush depth. Also playing with crew health, should be more fragile.

I'm playing with many factors, in some ways weakening the AI, in others increasing. The goal to be if you do things right, you can pull off attacks, but if not, you're in for big trouble.

I think the balance lies somewhere between RFB and TMO.

Just wondering if you guys feel the same, if so, what changes would you like.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Armistead

I seldom play anymore, for me the game has become
monotonous. It feels like doing the same thing over and over.

I know this feeling very well. My problem isn't the AI so much, it's the contacts on/off. With them on, it's too easy. With them off, it's too much of a chore. I find myself completing a few patrols, and then starting over. It just never has the right level of fun that I'm looking for.

[Diopos]

Armistead,
it is the natural course of things, isn't it?
Good thing you're trying to mod the game, hope you find it interesting!

The problem is we are battling a program not a human opponent. As I started wargaming with Avalon Hill boardgames (back in the 80s) against human opponents,I regard solitaire computer gaming always as a bad compromise.

Anyway always keep in mind the "fun factor" even in moding.

.

[WernherVonTrapp]

I still play , but not nearly as often as I used to. Right now, it's been about 2 days since I fired it up. Certainly, my work schedule has something to do with this but even on my off days, I usually will play for only a couple of hours a day instead of the all-day affair it used to be. I believe monotony is inevitable in all routine, especially the nonobligatory or surrogate ones. I'm sure that I too will eventually fall by the SHIV wayside, but for now, I trudge along at a snail's pace of endurance instead of the headlong plunge of interest that once preceded me.

In the meantime, I'll probably continue to sort my priorities and continue to immerse myself into the vast Pacific while my interest still lingers.

[Matthew_T_Sherman]

Well, SH4 is still a new toy to me but I can't help thinking that if the war had somehow managed to go on for a decade or more with no advances past a certain point, the surviving sub skippers may have felt the same way.

Has anyone considered a "SH4: Pacific Wolves 1946" variant that could potentially extend the war to that year or beyond? Perhaps an alternate history in which the Pacific theater waged on after the demise of Germany and the setback of the development of the U.S. atomic bomb. The U.S. could put to use captured type XXI boats while the Japanese managed to produce the I-500 in quantity but even greater advances in ASW would make things just as challenging.

Wait ... that's silly. Before long there would be submarine launched missiles if the world's economy survived two more years of war. Boring.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Matthew_T_Sherman

Has anyone considered a "SH4: Pacific Wolves 1946" variant that could potentially extend the war to that year or beyond? Perhaps an alternate history in which the Pacific theater waged on after the demise of Germany and the setback of the development of the U.S. atomic bomb.

By the end of the war, the submarines were largely running out of targets. Extending the war past the end would really serve little purpose, unless you could come up with something else for the boats to do, such as launching cruise missiles or landing raiding parties.

[Matthew_T_Sherman]

Originally Posted by razark

By the end of the war, the submarines were largely running out of targets. Extending the war past the end would really serve little purpose, unless you could come up with something else for the boats to do, such as launching cruise missiles or landing raiding parties.

Well that confirms ....

Wait ... that's silly. Before long there would be submarine launched missiles if the world's economy survived two more years of war. Boring.

I'm not sure how to post entirely serious.

[I'm goin' down]

Before falling asleep, try Map Contacts Disabled and
TMO2;
TMO Update 20 to 22;
OTC for TMO 2.2;
OTC Camera for 1280x1024 (or whatever is appropriate for your boat);
OTC Realistic Scopes for 5 to 3 TMO (or whatever is appropriate for your boat);
OTC Radar from Start for TMO;
OTC Tokko's Revenge for TMO;
Damage Caused by fires by TheDarkWraith; and
TheDarkWraith DC Water Disturbance v2 0.

Come back when you complete your first mission, which will be sometime next year.

[EricW]

I think it gets boring when you start to know exactly what you can get away with....I can look at a situation on radar or plot, check the weather and tell you whats going to happen 99% of the time, before I do it.

We know how far the AI can see/hear.....mostly.

We know our torps are going to run true, except the very rare circular
run (I've seen 3)

We know if we crash dive that we can pull out of it....every time.

We know if we order periscope depth that we won't keep rising and broach.

I LIKE the fact that you can take a Balao past 600ft and start to lose it(depth control).....I think Ducimus called it a bug in TMO, but I think that possibility should exist for every sub that goes past 300-400 ft......

I'm on patrol 17 on my current campaign- 80+ ships down, well over half a million tons(not exactly historical, eh ) -I haven't reloaded games or "cheated" with the cams in any way, and I only had one time where I took damage (from a deck gun ).

I think the last time I got REALLY worked up and adrenalized was around Patrol 11-12. I got a message to intercept a BB group and actually found it BUT......with flat, calm sea conditions, clear and 2 hours until dusk.

I thought making an attack was a suicide run. BUT, I also thought that any real sub captain would consider it his duty to try.....so I sank a Kongo and stayed up until 2 am making my escape from the escorts who wouldn't give up, but never did hurt me. I liked that one, I expected to get sunk and I got away.

Sinking a ship should be a MAJOR accomplishment.....that Kongo was a big deal to me, my first dozen using manual targeting were big deals. TMO made it exciting for a long time, but I'm pretty much getting the hang of it. Good thing for me that its almost RL hunting season and I'm ready for a break......I'll start back up fresh and get my ass sunk.....

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Diopos

As I started wargaming with Avalon Hill boardgames (back in the 80s) against human opponents, I regard solitaire computer gaming always as a bad compromise.

Avalon Hill, boy what I wouldn't give to have some of my old board games back. I started playing in the mid 60's (yep, I'm THAT old). Their version of Midway was my favorite, although D-Day was a good one, so was their Jutland (interesting concept, you didn't have a "board" to play on, you used the entire table. There was something like a "ruler" that determined movement and range finding). A couple of neighborhood friends played them with me, days would pass before completing one.


Yes, solitaire gaming is nothing like an opponent who pulls out a play that is barely in the rule book (I remember arguing for hours over rules), and takes out a couple of your CV's before you can say Holy Avalon Hill!!


========


Thanks "I'm goin' down" for the shout-out about OTC.

When I added the optional mod "Tokko's Revenge" I tried to make the AI hard enough you would want to say "UNCLE" before completing a years service. I didn't rely on making "additional" planes (actually there is less than the stock game), but I increased the planes visual detection, increased the modifiers that create the possibility of an attack, and strengthened the payloads they carry to make you sorry you ever thought of poking your head out to look around. I did the same for the enemy ship AI, harder hitting depth charges, relentless pursuit, greater visual detection. Again with the goal of making it increasing harder to complete the tasks that have become boring to the experienced gamer. Did I succeed? Only time will tell.

[EricW]

[QUOTE=


Thanks "I'm goin' down" for the shout-out about OTC.

When I added the optional mod "Tokko's Revenge" I tried to make the AI hard enough you would want to say "UNCLE" before completing a years service. I didn't rely on making "additional" planes (actually there is less than the stock game), but I increased the planes visual detection, increased the modifiers that create the possibility of an attack, and strengthened the payloads they carry to make you sorry you ever thought of poking your head out to look around. I did the same for the enemy ship AI, harder hitting depth charges, relentless pursuit, greater visual detection. Again with the goal of making it increasing harder to complete the tasks that have become boring to the experienced gamer. Did I succeed? Only time will tell.[/QUOTE]

I didn't know that you got a TMO compatible version done up....
I'm trying it...... Soon.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Avalon Hill, boy what I wouldn't give to have some of my old board games back. I started playing in the mid 60's (yep, I'm THAT old). Their version of Midway was my favorite, although D-Day was a good one, so was their Jutland (interesting concept, you didn't have a "board" to play on, you used the entire table. There was something like a "ruler" that determined movement and range finding). A couple of neighborhood friends played them with me, days would pass before completing one.

I've still got a few AH games living in cupboards, although I didn't start until the late '70s. The simpler games were usually my favorites. Anything that involved memorizing a book of rules like some of their later titles just seem to degenerate into tedium to play.

[I'm goin' down]

And then there were those of us who put baking soda inside the subs in our bathtubs .... But that story is for another day.

I think the game modded to TMO as I have set forth above is friggin' impossible. Typical scenario: contact at 250 degrees, long range; Search radar screen for contacts using 32K yd. scope--no contacts blips within radar range; 5 minutes later blip spotted on radar and crew announces "aircraft spotted;" Order boat to dive to periscope depth; Plane attacks; Plane departs; Surface the boat.
This repeats itself several times as the sky is crawling with planes. Radar is now my good friend, for without it, my boat is going down.

When I spot a TF/convoy the escorts are ready to pounce.

It takes a long time to run a mission, and I haven't completed one yet. Currently, I am off the coast of Japan, have sunk one merchant, fired on a fishing boat, been damaged by air attacks twice, and sunk (and replayed the mission*) once.

* trying to sneak into Tokyo Bay when your battery is low is not a good idea, I was unfortunate to discover.

[Armistead]

I'm using OTC since it came out for TMO, great mod for sure, but doesn't deal with my AI issues in campaign.

I've made several tough single missions that are fun, but I'm more concerned with campaign, so I'm trying to write them into RSRD as special missions, one a recon of Truk...so far impossible for me to complete and I know what will happen.

I tweaked and played some last night....I think to get the game more like I would like I would have to rewrite the entire campaign.

[CptChacal]

What you guys need is Destroyer Command on multiplayer...
... if it worked with SH4.