(Req) Mark 16...make it wakeless

[Bubblehead1980]

From what I read the Mark 16 torpedo was indeed wakeless.Someone was once kind enough to whip a up a mod that made the Mark 16 wakeless to the player eye but the enemy still spotted it.Could someone make it invisible to the enemy as well ? like the Mark 18? Thanks

[Gibus]

I have already looked this issue, but I did not find the file that makes the Mk-18 torpedoes wakeless.
I circumvented the problem by increasing the range and speed of the Mk-18. Unfortunately, the amount of explosive is much lower than that of the Mk-16.

[AOTD_MadMax]

The electric Mark18 got no wake-entry in the sim-file but the Mark16 got an wake-entry in the torpedoes_US.sim !

Make a savety-copy of the sim-file and delete the wake-entry for the Mark16 and test it out.
It should be done with this cause then the Mark 16 runs like the Mark 18 !

Regards

Maddy

[Gibus]

Originally Posted by AOTD_MadMax

... and delete the wake-entry for the Mark16

Your explanation should be more detailed, please.
In the file Torpedoes_US.sim are four variables ShipWake, but none is clearly attached to Mk-16 torpedo.
Moreover, they all seem to have identical parameters. So what?
Thanks.

Gibus

[AOTD_MadMax]

Originally Posted by Gibus

Your explanation should be more detailed, please.
In the file Torpedoes_US.sim are four variables ShipWake, but none is clearly attached to Mk-16 torpedo.
Moreover, they all seem to have identical parameters. So what?
Thanks.

Gibus

Hi,

you have to open first the Dat-file and the open the Sim.
Chose the MK16 and take the ID from this torpedo and search this iD in the Sim-file.
You will get 2 entry´s for this parent ID, one for the amun_torpedo-controler of this MK16 and another for the ShipWake-controler.
Thats the way to find out the right shipwake-controler for the MK16.

I think it is the Node 18 you have to delete.

Node 8 is the amun_torpedo-controler for the MK16.
The Parent ID is : 0x8f346dcc43bfbcb0
Node 18 should have the same Parent ID so that ShipWake-controler is the one for the MK16 !

Regards

Maddy

[Gibus]

Maddy thank you, I will make a small mod like that. I'll keep you informed.
Regards.

For Bubblehead:
Are you sure that the Mk 16 were without wake?

[Armistead]

The M-16 was virtually wakeless, but did have a small wake that was barely visable in calm water.

I'm not sure you could adjust it this way and would have to use one of the presets, thus making it wakeless.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Gibus

Maddy thank you, I will make a small mod like that. I'll keep you informed.
Regards.

For Bubblehead:
Are you sure that the Mk 16 were without wake?

It was nearly wakeless, much like the Japanese long lance which was notoriously difficult to spot as it was coming in, thus why it was so effective.This is just a quick source I found when googled it but have read it many other places.

I believe a wakeless Mark 16 in game would be fitting since cant make it nearly wakeless.

"* The new torpedo developments incorporated a number of innovative technologies. The major propulsion developments were the use of "Navol" (a 70% solution of hydrogen peroxide, H2O2) to supply the oxygen for combustion in steam torpedoes, plus the development of workable electric torpedoes.

Hydrogen peroxide was attractive as a torpedo propellant because it provided more oxygen per weight than compressed air, ensuring more efficient combustion in the heater system; its breakdown products also included water:


2 H202 --> 2 H2O + 02


-- which reduced the need for water for steam production. In addition, the breakdown of hydrogen peroxide released heat that contributed to propulsion energy. Since the wake of a conventional steam torpedo was mostly due to venting of inert nitrogen in the compressed air, and since the combustion products of a Navol torpedo were mostly water-soluble, yet another advantage of the Navol torpedo was that it was almost wakeless. The problem with the scheme was that hydrogen peroxide tends to spontaneously break down in storage, not only degrading the supply of propellant but generating pure oxygen and creating a fire / explosion hazard.

The Navy had experimented with the concept before the war, focusing on a Navol + alcohol propellant scheme from 1934. A Mark 10 was fitted with the Navol propulsion system and demonstrated tripled range; a Mark 14 was similarly refitted and obtained four times the range. The result of these experiments was development of a "Mark 17" torpedo for destroyers that would replace the Mark 15. However, Pearl Harbor derailed the Mark 17 program, since the immediate need was to turn out proven designs ... though as noted above they didn't turn out to be as "proven" as believed.

It wasn't until 1943 that work was restarted on the Mark 17, as well as the "Mark 16", a Navol replacement for the Mark 14. It appears that interest was rekindled because the Navy had finally become aware of the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) Type 93 61 centimeter (24 inch) surface-launched torpedo, which used compressed oxygen as a propellant. The IJN had used the long-range "Long Lance" torpedo, as it was known, with devastating effect against Allied warships early in the conflict, with those on the receiving end having no idea of what had hit them.

The Mark 16 / 17 was introduced in 1944 and proved successful, providing longer range and heavier warhead in torpedoes with the same form-factor as their predecessors. The Mark 16 would remain in service up to 1975, with the final variant being the "Mark 16 Mod 8", and a total of 1,700 built. The Mark 17 was not as long-lived, only remaining in service to 1950, with 450 built."

[Gibus]

Originally Posted by Gibus

... I'll keep you informed.

Hi Maddy,
At first, I tried to follow your advice to delete ShipWake for Mk-18, but this variable is not present in the file Torpedoes_US.sim
Despite this, there is a variable ShipWake for all other torpedoes except Cutie.
I thought I misunderstood your explanation.
I also thought that I had to delete ShipWake assigned to Mk-16 (node 18)
The result was that I had no Mk-16 in the tubes but the Mk-18 instead.

I do not know what to do ...

[Gibus]

Originally Posted by Gibus

I thought I misunderstood your explanation.

Explanation:
node and knot are the same word translated into French.

So, in my little head: node 18 = 18 knots = Mk-18 = confusion.

Well, the problem still remains.

[Gibus]

Erratum: It works.
I just failed to change the date of the assignment test.
The target sees the arrival of the torpedo about 5 seconds before impact. Too late!
Test at 9,000 meters range.
Thank you, Maddy.
Regards.

Gibus

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Gibus

Erratum: It works.
I just failed to change the date of the assignment test.
The target sees the arrival of the torpedo about 5 seconds before impact. Too late!
Test at 9,000 meters range.
Thank you, Maddy.
Regards.

Gibus

very nice! why does it see it five seconds before? did you make it that way or ? Just curious.Also, plan to release this as a mod by any chance? nice work.

[Gibus]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

why does it see it five seconds before?

I do not know.
On the advice of MadMax, I removed the variable on the wake, such as work MK18 torpedo and Cutie. And nothing else. It's very simple, right?
I guess (but I affirm nothing) that Japanese operators have detected the presence of the torpedo through their hydrophone ....
When targets are destroyers (swift like rabbits), I take a first torpedo at the rear turret, then 4 to 5 seconds later a second torpedo about 10 to 20 meters in front of the bow. Unstoppable!

Now I can hope to attack Yamato on 7 April 1945, successfully, before Mitsher him do his party.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Also, plan to release this as a mod by any chance?

I did not understand the meaning of this sentence. Please, would you repeat it otherwise?

[Karle94]

Originally Posted by Gibus

I do not know.
On the advice of MadMax, I removed the variable on the wake, such as work MK18 torpedo and Cutie. And nothing else. It's very simple, right?
I guess (but I affirm nothing) that Japanese operators have detected the presence of the torpedo through their hydrophone ....
When targets are destroyers (swift like rabbits), I take a first torpedo at the rear turret, then 4 to 5 seconds later a second torpedo about 10 to 20 meters in front of the bow. Unstoppable!

Now I can hope to attack Yamato on 7 April 1945, successfully, before Mitsher him do his party.


I did not understand the meaning of this sentence. Please, would you repeat it otherwise?

He asks if you have any plans to upload it so other people can enjoy your good work.

[Gibus]

I understand. Ouch, I hope you understand my explanation.
First, we must render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar, that is to say that thanks to MadMax I arrived at the result.
Then, as you know, it depends with what you play super-mod. Each author of MOD makes its own modifications. So if I propose a generic MOD, it may not be compatible with other MODs.
Personally, I play with TMO 17 and I can not guarantee compatibility with RSRD, FOTRS or other MODs.
Therefore, I prefer to explain how I did so that you can reproduce your own small MOD.

1. Create a directory: Torpedo_Mk16_wakeless \ Data \ Library.
2. Copy the Torpedoes_US.sim file (found in your personal super-mod) in the Library folder.
3. With Silent3ditor, open the copy file.
4. Using the mouse, select the node 18: ShipWake.
5. Right-click, delete option.
6. Save the new file.
7. Copy the Torpedo_Mk16_wakeless mod into the MODS folder of SH4.
8. Activate with JSGME.
9. Good game and good luck.

Later, if your super-mod changes, you must make sure that this file is not update. Otherwise, you will make a compatible update.

Thank you to tell me whether I was quite clear and understood.

Gibus