Milk Cow v. Surface Ship Resupply

[rudewarrior]

IRL, correct me if I'm wrong, but when a U-boat docked with a U-tanker, generally what would happen is:

1. The resupply was done as quickly as possible, weather permitting.

2. The U-boat would get some fuel resupplied.

3. The U-boat would get ~1-4 air torpedoes, depending on availability.

What are the corresponding results for a surface ship resupply?

I know that the crew would get invited on to chow down and get some home town cooking (like in Das Boot), but what about the torpedoes and the fuel?

Did they get fuel, and if so how much? Did they get torpedoes also?

Any references anyone could point to would be much appreciated.

[Gerald]

Hi! U-boats had fuel,(they got a full tank) ammunition, and torpedoes,(and in the case of eels as they got full of what they have, unless you have custom settings) and any damage repaired, and after every % of damage to the hull, so the time was extended by one day ... but a few upgrades to your boat can only be done in your home port, for example, flak guns ... it was in the game anyway, in reality it was different.

[Herr-Berbunch]

I think he is on about in RL

[rudewarrior]

Ok,

I posted a thread similar to this, and the same thing happened last time.

Just to clarify:

I am looking for an answer to what ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN REAL LIFE!!!

I already know exactly what happens in the game, that is not what I am looking for.

Answers of, "Well this is what happens in the game, and in real life it was different," really aren't helping me.

I'm really hoping this clears things up.

[Gerald]

But then you would have made it clear it directly without Posting a further topic,here same links,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-boat

http://rmhh.co.uk/files/Slaughter%20...ilk%20Cows.pdf

http://diodon349.com/War/CG%20sinks%20U352.htm

http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/archi...__t_17126.html

http://adjunct.diodon349.com/Uboats/...s_and_more.htm

http://www.uboat.net/boats/u66.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsmarine

And good luck, But google is your friend, too, if you do not sit with all the knowledge in hand!

[rudewarrior]

@Vendor:

I recognize that you are trying to be helpful, but could you please point out in my previous thread and specifically this follow up post, where I didn't "made [sic] it clear it directly?" I decided to post a new thread trying to be as explicit as possible, since I didn't get what I wanted out of the last thread (and to some extent it got hijacked). I was trying to do that since, clearly, I had done some research since my last post, and I thought it merited a new post, that would be much more clear and concise in exactly what I am asking for.

It also states in the FAQ:

"Please do not engage in 'topic spamming', where you post several threads on the essentially the same topic in a short period of time. If you want to discuss women's synchronized swimming, fine; start a topic on it. But don't start another topic on women's synchronized swimming clothing, women's synchronized swimming schedules, etc. for several weeks." The last post I made in that thread was 22 Jan 2011. Is ~6 months not enough time?

I also know how to conduct research, as I spent a lot of time doing it to accomplish certain things.

That is why I am coming here, because I have spent a lot of time searching many things (including "The Google") to look for an answer to these specific questions, and I have not found them. In my research, I have come across many of the links you posted, and I have used them for reference. What I am looking for now is a specific answer to a specific question. Now, in my experience, when I am asked to give references to a question that is that detailed, I usually automatically supply the reference with it, down to the book page if necessary.

What you have chosen to do is dump a bunch of generally related links on me with a suggestion to use Google. One of the links is for the encounter between U-352 and the Icarus. Although the article is complete, he most likely used Hickam's Torpedo Junction as a reference, a book that I have in my library as reference. I cannot help but notice that this link has absolutely nothing to do with surface resupply, which specifically what I am asking about in this thread.

All-in-all I can't help but feel a little frustrated here. I find it a bit off-putting to ask a specific question, have it misinterpreted and not answered, then get told that I need to do things that I have done, and I still don't get the answer I am looking for, all from a senior member of this forum.

Please, help me understand, exactly what am I doing wrong here to deserve this treatment?

[Gerald]

@rudewarrior! Regarding your previous thread for help, in the subject so I do not know what response you received, probably nothing at all ... and that I posted this has a natural explanation for a helping hand no more,(and more if necessity so requires) and you sure have put a lot of energy on finding answers to your questions, and because I sure is not more familiar with this one yourself, and also I did not see your earlier thread, and any feedback you received, so I finished your frustration that you have been "completely useless "response in return from me ... but maybe you can send a message to a member who knows a lot about this when your efforts have been fruitless ... still, and on the FAQ, I have no objection to it, you took self-inclusion "topic spamming" in your text, no one can blame you "for spamming". Here is a link to the current Member,

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=227416

[Sailor Steve]

Rudewarrior, I knew what you were talking about from the start. You are spot on about the milch kuhs, but I'm not sure either about the surface supply ships. It would seem to me that if they were free-roaming they could give you almost anything you needed (except the game's super-duper repair facilities), but the ones that were interred like Weser in Das Boot would have great trouble with torpedoes. But of course what it would seem to me and what it actually was are two far different things. Without actual evidence it's hard to say.

Also remember that the most important factor is the state of the crew. Too much time at sea and it won't matter how well the boat is stocked.

[mookiemookie]

Supply ships would be stocked with torpedoes for resupply (from 10 up to 48) but U-boats limited in the number they received due to the time and effort involved in doing so.

This wartime interrogation report of captured U-boat men notes that U-boats would only receive 1 or 2 torpedoes in a typical resupply operation. Torpedoes would be floated from the supply vessel across to the receiving boat via inflatable rafts and life vests.

SOP was for boats to resupply on the way out, rather than the way in. They were just being topped off with fuel and torpedoes. Nothing like resupply in-game where you get a full load of torpedoes instantly.

You may be interested in this book. It's like the "Hitler's U-boat War" of resupply vessels: http://www.amazon.com/MILK-COWS-U-Bo...1273484&sr=8-1 It's sitting on my shelf at home. I found it to be well researched and informative if you have an interest in this sort of thing.

[rudewarrior]

@Vendor:

Thanx for the info pass-on, sorry I got so cranky. I will explain a little more below.

@Sailor Steve:

Thanx for the info, this is a little more in line with what I am looking for, and it helps me out more than you might think.

Let me offer a little explanation here. I have been following the development (and using) h.sie's wonderful Sh3.exe mod, that has a brilliant milk cow fix. I haven't had an opportunity to actually use the U-tanker portion, but I have been contemplating using it as a substitute for surface resupply. However, I haven't been able to find any sort of information about what actually happened at the surface supply ships.

I try to play the game as reasonably realistically as possible, i.e. if my submarine sinks I don't run out and drown myself in my bathtub.

So now that I have options on what to do with this surface ship resupply, I am trying to make it conform as much as much as possible to what really happened. Based on my research and my limited understanding of naval warfare (I was in the Army), it would seem to me that this resource was used sparingly, and only under certain circumstances. I'm guessing priority was given to (in this order):

1. U-boats that had expended most/all of their ordinance and were intending on going home, but were close to "bingo" fuel, i.e. close to the minimum fuel required to get home.

2. U-boats that had just arrived, and were directed to top off their tanks so they would have the maximum amount of fuel to burn running at higher (combat) speeds.

What seems clear to me is that the actual docking as is currently in the game is highly unrealistic. It gives you a full torpedo loadout, and IIRC it repairs your u-boat to 100% and give you a full tank of gas. It would seem to me that getting any sort of major repairs, let alone hull damage repairs, would be highly unlikely. Also, torpedoes would most likely not be given out, but I could see them being xferred, b/c I suspect that these resupply ships would be equipped with some sort of winch/crane system to xfer any sort of supplies. For the first case listed above, it would seem they would give you enough fuel to get home plus a little extra just to be sure. For the second case, they might top you off, but the assumption would be that you had burned off a less than significant amount on the way out.

I guess what it all boils down to is that this is just my opinion. Unfortunately, when I was working on my PhD in Physics, one of the first things that was drilled into my head was not to trust my opinion. It is real important to me to either get facts, or get the opinions of people who are more knowledgeable than I. So ultimately, that is what I am looking for. If I can do the best I can to force at least a compromise in the game than leans towards a realistic solution, I would be satisfied; however, I also have to know exactly what that solution is to feel that I am going in the right direction. But, if there actually is nothing out there, at least with some experienced people's opinions, I might be able to construct some reasonable approximation of what happened, and ultimately, it may not be that different from my opinion, and thus acceptable.

I hope this explains what I am attempting to achieve.

[rudewarrior]

@mm:

Thank you so much, this is exactly what I was looking for. Looks like my opinion, as expected, was wrong. At least I got that part right.

I'll take a look at that book.

Many thanx.

[rudewarrior]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

This wartime interrogation report of captured U-boat men notes that U-boats would only receive 1 or 2 torpedoes in a typical resupply operation. Torpedoes would be floated from the supply vessel across to the receiving boat via inflatable rafts and life vests.

This turns out to be exactly what I am looking for. It seems from this reference that using h.sie's u-tanker fix for all resupplies will be a sufficient method to simulate resupply.

Many thanx again!

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by rudewarrior

Unfortunately, when I was working on my PhD in Physics, one of the first things that was drilled into my head was not to trust my opinion.

Advice that more people should take. When I say "I don't know anything" I get accusations of covering up or playing games. The truth is I don't believe anybody knows anything. Unless facts are provided, don't believe it.

It is real important to me to either get facts, or get the opinions of people who are more knowledgeable than I.

I wouldn't even trust the opinions. Unless they're backed up with facts, of course.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by rudewarrior

This turns out to be exactly what I am looking for. It seems from this reference that using h.sie's u-tanker fix for all resupplies will be a sufficient method to simulate resupply.

Many thanx again!

Glad I could be of help. I haven't seen h.sie's fix, but I always tried to play along historical guidelines. If I had used more than one or two torpedoes before resupplying, I would fire off the extras it gave me. I never used resupply on the inbound journey - only outbound, as per real life standing orders. I remember reading somewhere that the thinking was that you should resupply when you know you can get it. The resupply ship may not be there for whatever reason on your way back in and if you're relying on it to give you enough fuel to get home, you'd be screwed if it wasn't there.

[rudewarrior]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I wouldn't even trust the opinions. Unless they're backed up with facts, of course.

Usually for me, if I rely on facts, then hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I would be relying on facts to form an opinion, ergo I would trust theirs.

But I hear what you're sayin'.

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I haven't seen h.sie's fix, but I always tried to play along historical guidelines. If I had used more than one or two torpedoes before resupplying, I would fire off the extras it gave me.

Check out his fix. It fixes a lot of basic issues in the game, even the torpedo loadout issue that you mentioned. It is the sticky labeled Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE. Excellent work by those guys.