Not tinkering with Torpedo depths anymore!!

[ddiplock]

That's it, I've had it tinkering with the torpedo depth settings. Its mid 1943, and even for a ship that has a draft of say 21 feet, even when I set the torpedo to impact detonation, to run at say 14/15 feet.....it still seems too deep when it impacts.

They always seem to impact right on the point of the hull where it rounds to form the bottom. Hence, it bounces off as a dud rather than impacting and exploding!!

[pabbi]

Torpedoes ran 11 feet deeper than set. So for 21 feet you have to go 11 feet up. That is 9 feet.

Then ad 5 feet if you use magnetic exsploder that is 14 feet.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by pabbi

Torpedoes ran 11 feet deeper than set. So for 21 feet you have to go 11 feet up. That is 9 feet.

Then ad 5 feet if you use magnetic exsploder that is 14 feet.

Gaming hindsight is a wonderful thing. The problem was that until Admiral Lockwood conducted his tests in 1943 they didn't know the torpedoes were running deep, and after that the problem was fixed. If you're adjusting for that in 1942 you're cheating, plain and simple.

[pabbi]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Gaming hindsight is a wonderful thing. The problem was that until Admiral Lockwood conducted his tests in 1943 they didn't know the torpedoes were running deep, and after that the problem was fixed. If you're adjusting for that in 1942 you're cheating, plain and simple.

ddiplock said he was playing in 43 so it should not be cheating.

[Armistead]

Are you playing stock, because I don't have that problem with TMO in 43 with deep runners.

Still, sounds like you're complaining about duds maybe related to where they hit on the ship, but if they make contact they should explode although you'll still get some duds from 43 onward. Simply, it doesn't matter where they hit the ship, if it's a good torp it will explode.

Using keel shots in 43 onward I set the torps to run 3 ft deeper than the ships keel depth, prolly use a lil more but that seems to hit the keel damage zones and blow holes in the ships bottom.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by pabbi

ddiplock said he was playing in 43 so it should not be cheating.

You're right, my mistake. There is a chance that the game/mod actually takes the correct dates into account and makes the change late that year, in which case he's only months away. If not, then it needs to be fixed.

Either way, my bad for not paying attention.

[magic452]

Your issue may be the AoB your torpedoes are hitting at, 90° is too steep try something more like 70° impact angle. Mid 43 I set 6 feet above the keel all the time with good success.

Magic

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by ddiplock

That's it, I've had it tinkering with the torpedo depth settings. Its mid 1943, and even for a ship that has a draft of say 21 feet, even when I set the torpedo to impact detonation, to run at say 14/15 feet.....it still seems too deep when it impacts.

They always seem to impact right on the point of the hull where it rounds to form the bottom. Hence, it bounces off as a dud rather than impacting and exploding!!

The torps don't dud because of hitting the bottom of the hull, but because the Mk 6 exploder elements were damaged by the violent impact. If you can get them to hit at a sharper angle and/ or lower speed you should have a better chance. You could also go back to magnetic influence detonation (which has problems of it's own). As far as the proper angle is concerned, you would most likely need to go from 90 deg. to 45 deg or so to greatly change to impact forces.

All of this assumes that the torpedos are more or less properly modeled.

Gaming hindsight is a wonderful thing. The problem was that until Admiral Lockwood conducted his tests in 1943 they didn't know the torpedoes were running deep, and after that the problem was fixed. If you're adjusting for that in 1942 you're cheating, plain and simple.

In a sense you are right, but then not "cheating" might well mean whole patrols without sinking a single ship. Who wants to carefully set up attacks, firing one after another without being able to sink a single target? Also, I would say that there were strong suspicions about the torpedos beforehand; otherwise there would not have been any tests (by Lockwood).

[commandosolo2009]

Originally Posted by TorpX

The torps don't dud because of hitting the bottom of the hull, but because the Mk 6 exploder elements were damaged by the violent impact. If you can get them to hit at a sharper angle and/ or lower speed you should have a better chance. You could also go back to magnetic influence detonation (which has problems of it's own). As far as the proper angle is concerned, you would most likely need to go from 90 deg. to 45 deg or so to greatly change to impact forces.

All of this assumes that the torpedos are more or less properly modeled.

In a sense you are right, but then not "cheating" might well mean whole patrols without sinking a single ship. Who wants to carefully set up attacks, firing one after another without being able to sink a single target? Also, I would say that there were strong suspicions about the torpedos beforehand; otherwise there would not have been any tests (by Lockwood).

I thought the ideal angle was 110°

[magic452]

Originally Posted by commandosolo2009

I thought the ideal angle was 110°

That 110° is to give the target the least options to evade your torpedoes.

That won't help much with the impact angle damaging the exploder.
They don't need to evade if the torpedoes don't go off.

I find that a 60 to 65° angle works pretty good.

Magic

[Daniel Prates]

I myself never tamper with running depth and never miss it too.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by commandosolo2009

I thought the ideal angle was 110°

The optimum track angle relates to having the greatest error tolerance in the targets course. It really has nothing to do with potential duds, target evasion possibilities, tactical factors, etc. It is not a comprehensive optimum angle, but gives the least deflection error for a given error in target course. The 110 deg. angle is not fixed, but only a "typical" optimum as it is a function of both torpedo speed and target speed.

It can be calculated thus:

Optimum track angle = 90 + Arcsin (target speed / torpedo speed)

This was part of USN doctrine, and is shown here (plate XVII, XVIII):

http://hnsa.org/doc/attack/index.htm#platexvii



BTW, O'Kane talks of setting up attacks and using this. Clearly, he understood the geometry behind this.