Say what you will about Glenn Beck...

[GoldenRivet]

...but EVERY "peace and social justice" proponent needs to view this clip with an open mind.

you guys are supposedly an intelligent bunch, it isnt too much to ask to get you to watch this clip for 6 1/2 minutes



http://www.glennbeck.com/2011/01/18/...giving-to-irs/


enjoy

[Growler]

Oh, lord. There's so much wrong with this article that I don't know where to start, so I'll keep in simple. Before I go on, I didn't watch the video, but read the article connected to it.

Tithing = brainwashed supporting of "church causes" like the legal defense funds for pedopriests. I won't go into the total scam that is organized religion.

Celebrities griping about taxes. Poor freaking babies. Let me earn what you earn to blather about endlessly, Oprah, and feel a little of your pain. That'll learn me. No sympathy for any of them, at all. They make their choices; the taxes come with those choices. Que lastima!

Glenn Beck spouting off about tithing only calls into question even further the ties between religion and conservatism - a religion that, ostensibly, is not supposed to be involved in politics, but ultimately is the genesis of all politics.

Need to drink more coffee and extract the car from the block of ice it's in.

[Armistead]

Glen Beck is nothing more than a entertainer, loves shock value, because of the attention it gets him. Why he had views before, since he's gone to Fox he's become almost a nut case. I love when he cries those fake tears, so obvious.

Strange, most Christians support him, but believe mormonism to be a hellbound cult.

I heard another spill he gave on tithing, that all should tithe so the church could take care of all social issues. I wouldn't trust a church no more than the IRS. Sure, some do great things, but overall religion believes in using government and law to push their moral agenda. They want God in government, but only their beliefs. I"m sure they would love to combine religion and politics like past days.

Most religious groups follow the GOP. They don't want healthcare for children, any help social programs, but will sell their souls to corporate america to make a few percent rich.

I hate anything radical, left of right...Beck is an idiot. Sure, he tells some truths, but only spews one limited view, he should take up preaching.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Growler

I didn't watch the video

says it all, thanks for playing

Originally Posted by Growler

Tithing = brainwashed supporting of "church causes" like the legal defense funds for pedopriests.

Or like the church i attend semi-annually sending a team of Doctors and Nurses to third world countries to provide first rate free medical care to people who have diseases that would easily kill someone in such a nation.

all i asked for was an open mind and six minutes... instead i got the door slammed in my face

Its my fault though, i gave far too much credit.

Originally Posted by Growler

Celebrities griping about taxes. Poor freaking babies.

I dont think Oprah was complaining about taxes, just pointing out how much she pays. (But you didnt watch the video to hear her direct audio did you?) the point of the video, is "Why is the united States government in the business of forced charity?" besides... high taxation is a burden on everyone. the more pet programs the government has, the more you are going to pay for them

Originally Posted by Growler

Need to drink more coffee and extract the car from the block of ice it's in.

Amongst other things i suppose.

Originally Posted by Armistead

I heard another spill he gave on tithing, that all should tithe so the church could take care of all social issues.

that i wouldnt agree with, however, if i am forced to "tithe" to the IRS, should i not be allowed to choose the social issue to which my money is sent?

Originally Posted by Armistead

I wouldn't trust a church no more than the IRS.

Funny, lots of people say that exact thing... yet... for some reason they continue to open their check books to the IRS every single year do they not?

Originally Posted by Armistead

Sure, some do great things, but overall religion believes in using government and law to push their moral agenda. They want God in government, but only their beliefs. I"m sure they would love to combine religion and politics like past days.

combining God and government would be a disaster, i dont think i once heard anyone say the Church should be placed in charge of anything... what i DID HEAR was a man comparing "tithing" to paying the IRS.

in the case of tithin you see where your money goes and you see its direct impact on your community or a community a world away. an individual who "tithes" does so because they WANT TO, not because they have to.

In the case of Taxes for welfare and social justice programs, your hands are tied, if uncle sam says you have to "tithe" the the IRS... guess what, you have to.

Originally Posted by Armistead

Most religious groups follow the GOP. They don't want healthcare for children, any help social programs, but will sell their souls to corporate america to make a few percent rich.

Im not a big church goer, but that statement is so far out of line with the truth i dont even know what to say.

[Oberon]

Lol, Bullet train as violent rhetoric.

I must admit, the first thing that surprised me here is the reasonable tone, normally when one sees Glenn Beck, he's calling the hellfire down upon the unbelievers...but given what I've just watched I'd wager that that is a good example of unbiased selective editing.

Now, the subject...the IRS...I wager that's Inland Revenue in the states I guess? and Taxes...well...no-one likes Taxes, do they? From the rich to the poor, everyone hates taxes, but arguably, if it was left to private companies, could they be completely trusted with public services? Look at our rail network in the UK, privatised in the late 1990s and is only just recovering, train fares through the roof and rail maintenance run by a different company to the trains, which one can argue has lead to several fatal accidents in the past decade, but I digress. Private companies are generally only in it for one thing and that is to generate revenue, it's pretty simple, and perhaps the guy at the top makes a hideous amount, but so does any guy at any top, it's a fact of life.
Now, one could argue that public companies have a greater focus on service than on profit...perhaps this is true, however at the end of the day they will still focus heavily on generating revenue to meet the targets issued to them by their government body. There's corruption in both public and private companies, perhaps it's easier to hide in a public body because, due to its nature, it haemorrages funds at an alarming rate...but nevertheless, it still occurs at varying rates depending upon the nature of the management and of the directing council.
"Your tax dollars at work." Well, yes, that's understandable, and I imagine is covered by the corruption I've mentioned, doubtless some mayor or senator thinks that a High speed rail line will benefit his area and so has put some lobbying behind it, and thus the project is born...it's happened over here too, and in fact around every nation on the planet, independent of governmental style, independent of political leaning, human greed is human greed, short of divide intervention that's not going to change.

I think the crux of the matter though is that big elephant in the middle, government, and the way it diverts funds from the people into public companies, and yes that will always be a matter for great debate, however it will be debated by the right when the left is in power and by the left when the right is in power, we'll have misappropriated government funds in a Democratic government, and a corporate corruption scandal in a Republican government. So, really, what Glenn Beck says is well...nothing much...really, unless being an islander I've missed the point he's trying to make.

Still, one of the more reasonable things I've seen from Beck...aside from the 'violent rhetoric' jibe which, while amusing, was a bit unnecessary in the topic...but there you go. I've seen worse.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Oberon

aside from the 'violent rhetoric' jibe which, while amusing, was a bit unnecessary in the topic...but there you go. I've seen worse.

it was meant to be humorous, drawing attention to how everything that has anything to do with "bullet" is violent dribble.

you get beck humor, congratulations

[Rockstar]

Biblically tithing was for the Temple Priests when there was a Temple. These Priests have nothing to do with catholics or other self proclaimed shepards. But those of the desendants of Arron and Arron only.

You don't need to go to some 'church'. If you desire to give then give and give with a cheerful heart to those who truely need it. Political activists are the last ones I need to hear from about tithing, no matter what wing they're flapping.

[Takeda Shingen]

A peculair metaphor. Does this make the political class the priests of American society?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

it was meant to be humorous, drawing attention to how everything that has anything to do with "bullet" is violent dribble.

you get beck humor, congratulations

I'm a Brit, I get most sorts of humour To be honest I was grabbing at straws there, I did get a chuckle out of it.

Come to think of it, there's a certain Steve McQueen film that could be under threat...

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

A peculair metaphor. Does this make the political class the priests of American society?

in any governed society, someone, somewhere is exerting influence and power over someone else.

In the middle ages it was the catholic priests and bishops and the pope

in today's time perhaps it is the representatives and the senators and the presidents.

the old saying "divide and conquer" comes to mind.

then ask "who is dividing us?"

whatever the answer to that question is... theres your enemy

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Biblically tithing was for the Temple Priests when there was a Temple. These Priests have nothing to do with catholics or other self proclaimed shepards. But those of the desendants of Arron and Arron only.

You don't need to go to some 'church'. If you desire to give then give and give with a cheerful heart to those who truely need it. Political activists are the last ones I need to hear from about tithing, no matter what wing they're flapping.

“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." Matthew 6:1-2

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

in any governed society, someone, somewhere is exerting influence and power over someone else.

In the middle ages it was the catholic priests and bishops and the pope

in today's time perhaps it is the representatives and the senators and the presidents.

the old saying "divide and conquer" comes to mind.

then ask "who is dividing us?"

whatever the answer to that question is... theres your enemy

Ah. So 'social justice', to utilize the term that you prefer, is the very same as the crusades by both intent and effect. We are besieging the new Jerusalem?

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Ah. So 'social justice', to utilize the term that you prefer, is the very same as the crusades by both intent and effect. We are besieging the new Jerusalem?

Dont misunderstand me.

in a way, all good men seek social justice.

however, in our society, there are those who appear to believe that it is the place of our federal government to impose social justice on its people.

do i give to causes which could be considered "social justice causes"?

of course i do, i wont say to which, nor will i say how much, but i do when i can afford to.

I believe though, that it should be up to the individual to do so freely, with a proud and glad heart... not forced under duress.

thats all im saying, and i think what Glenn Beck is trying to say - or at least what i took away from the video... is that it might be a more enjoyable thing to pay taxes toward social justice type programs wherein the individual parting with their money is able to see the good that it does instead of just writing a check to a cold, bureaucratic organization parting with money that is never to be seen or heard from again and in all likelihood will go to some senator's pet project.

On another note: I'm not sure i understand the folks today who attack religion.

I used to do it, but the more i open my eyes to it i begin to see that your experience with religion depends exactly upon where you go to have your experience.

I have had good experiences, and i have had bad experiences, but one thing i have learned here in the past few years is that i should try harder not to lump people into one category based on their color, or religion or their political position.

thats not always easy, sometimes is damned hard. but i try still.

its very discouraging to see some of the very people who would say things like: "Dont hate the man because he is black." or "Be more fair to our immigrants legal or illegal" or "refrain from saying things that are antisemitic"

those same people would run you down the minute you say you're a Christian or even dare mention Christianity or God... because the moment you do they assume that you want to force your religion on them, force God into government, want to hoard guns and kill people.

there isnt a two way street in these kinds of discussions, and i gave some people here too much credit to start with.

Am i a Christian?

you bet your arse

Do i love Christ?

you bet your arse

Do i cuss and drink and look at girls when they walk by and skip church virtually every sunday?

again... you bet your arse

do i think God should be part of the government or that the church should be part of the government or that everyone should be Christian.

not no but hell no.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Dont misunderstand me.

in a way, all good men seek social justice.

however, in our society, there are those who appear to believe that it is the place of our federal government to impose social justice on its people.

do i give to causes which could be considered "social justice causes"?

of course i do, i wont say to which, nor will i say how much, but i do when i can afford to.

I believe though, that it should be up to the individual to do so freely, with a proud and glad heart... not forced under duress.

thats all im saying, and i think what Glenn Beck is trying to say - or at least what i took away from the video... is that it might be a more enjoyable thing to pay taxes toward social justice type programs wherein the individual parting with their money is able to see the good that it does instead of just writing a check to a cold, bureaucratic organization parting with money that is never to be seen or heard from again and in all likelihood will go to some senator's pet project.

On another note: I'm not sure i understand the folks today who attack religion.

I used to do it, but the more i open my eyes to it i begin to see that your experience with religion depends exactly upon where you go to have your experience.

I have had good experiences, and i have had bad experiences, but one thing i have learned here in the past few years is that i should try harder not to lump people into one category based on their color, or religion or their political position.

thats not always easy, sometimes is damned hard. but i try still.

its very discouraging to see some of the very people who would say things like: "Dont hate the man because he is black." or "Be more fair to our immigrants legal or illegal" or "refrain from saying things that are antisemitic"

those same people would run you down the minute you say you're a Christian or even dare mention Christianity or God... because the moment you do they assume that you want to force your religion on them, force God into government, want to hoard guns and kill people.

there isnt a two way street in these kinds of discussions, and i gave some people here too much credit to start with.

Am i a Christian?

you bet your arse

Do i love Christ?

you bet your arse

Do i cuss and drink and look at girls when they walk by and skip church virtually every sunday?

again... you bet your arse

do i think God should be part of the government or that the church should be part of the government or that everyone should be Christian.

not no but hell no.

What I am saying is that Glenn Beck is not a fool. I do not like him. I do not agree with him. Still, he is drawing an analogy between 'social justice' and the crusades. It is not one that has anything to do with faith, gods or dogma. Rather it is one that has to do with futility. The crusades were a futile endeavor; the arbitrary capture of a city from an imaginary enemy. The Islamic world was not a threat to western Christendom, and yet western Christians were forced into support of a supposed religious crusade with the true objective of (1) eliminating an eastern Christian rival and (2) capturing a city from an imagined enemy. Beck is clearly drawing the comparison between this fruitless, and utimately destructive event and the modern democratic movement.

He is saying that progressivism is beholden to a destructive quasi-crusade in the vein of the religious crusades of old. The message is not particularly subtle.

[Oberon]

Ataturk had the right idea with religion and government IMHO.