What next after "Iron coffins" And what was false about it??

[fastfed]

I have about 30 pages to finish, but I searched on here and couldn't decide which thread to jump back up, so I started my own.


First.. I would like to know why and how this book was debunked.. What was false about his story? His girlfriends stories? His few battle stories (a couple pages for each)


Is Werner still alive? I searched online and found a 90 year old guy named Herbert A. Werner that lives in Florida.. I feel like calling the published number and talk to him (if its still him)

Finally.. I just read my first U-boat book AND LOVED IT!, thank you guys for recommending it to me.. But I feel I just read the "Saving Private Ryan" of books and nothing else will compare or give me the feeling of being there..

What would be a good choice after this book? something to follow a personal experience...,

Again. THANKS EVERYONE!

[frau kaleun]

From Michael Hadley's Count Not The Dead:

Jurgen Rohwer, Germany's premier naval historian, savaged [Iron Coffins] in a scathing review. "If one wanted to underline the factual errors [in red], almost every page would be like a blood bath," he observed. On the basis of documentary evidence - some of which consisted of reports submitted by Werner himself during his wartime service - Rohwer condemned the book as sheer hyprocisy. Werner had spliced other submariners' achievements onto his own record, had wildly exaggerated circumstances and events, did not have access to witnesses on whom he claimed to draw, invented orders that never existed, and distorted statistics and records - all to sustain his charge that the naval leadership had irresponsibly "fuelled up" submariners to undertake suicidal missions.

Others may be able to comment on specific items of contention in Werner's narrative. While Iron Coffins is no doubt a great read, the most generous approach is probably to consider it a narrative drawn from one man's personal recollections, which are inherently subjective and prone to inaccuracy in some respects, rather than a well-researched and strictly factual account of "the way it was."

Das Boot stirred up a lot of controversy when it was published as well, but of course it was marketed and sold as a novel based on an assortment of real events, not a non-fiction retelling of them. It's also a great read and the paperback version is readily available from Amazon.

Also good are Peter Cremer's memoir - in the English version I have, I think the title is U-333 - and Jordan Vause's books Wolf and the one about Wolfgang Luth, the title of which I've forgotten. I found Michael Gannon's Operation Drumbeat to be another compelling read.

[JEuler]

Here's Subnuts post about the book: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...17&postcount=1

He's probably still alive and lives in the US.

[STEED]

Just a throw away book, you read it once or twice then throw it out and buy a book that is factual and not rose tinted glasses.

[fastfed]

Originally Posted by JEuler

Here's Subnuts post about the book: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...17&postcount=1

He's probably still alive and lives in the US.

Thanks! I just read through most of that..

I don't remember any homing torpedo that was dropped after him.. But I might of missed a page ?

Also, I don't see how its impossible to shoot down a plane with a WW1 gun.. A lucky shot could of easily done it and with the amount of times he had many chances..

Either way, This guy lives not 2 hours or so from me.. I think I am going to call him and see what happens if I start talking..

[albn99]

I was looking around for people in my past, and thought of a guy my dad used to work for. Yes, his name was Herbert A. Werner. My old man left for New Jersey around 1985, and came back home in 1987. I just remember the guy with his Mercedes Benz and his over-use of cologne.

I am very surprised to see he is still alive.

[Platapus]

For your next read, try Edward Beach's Run Silent Run Deep.

I think people are being a bit hard on Iron Coffins.

It is a great read and I am sure there are many of us for whom this was one of the first submarine books we read.

The story that Werner tells is true even if some number of the facts are not. Life on a WWII submarine is mostly boring so Werner, in trying to "tell his story" had to speed things up, combine things, and even fill in literary holes.

If one is looking for an encyclopedic read like Clair Blair, Werner's book is not for you.

If, however, you are looking for a perspective into the human aspects of German WWII submarine life, Werner's book captures the humanity.

I have read a few submarine books in my time and few have been able to describe the human side of the German navy like Werner's book.

Why would anyone be surprised at an old navy guy telling war stories that are not 100% factual?

Perhaps he should started the first chapter with "there I was, no <expletive>, staring death in the face....

[sharkbit]

Originally Posted by Platapus

For your next read, try Edward Beach's Run Silent Run Deep.

Once you're done with that, read the sequel, "Dust on the Sea" and then his third book in the "trilogy", "Cold is the Sea".

"Dust..." continues right where the first left off and "Cold..." takes place during the Cold War.

All are excellent reads.

Also read his book "Submarine". True stories of US Fleet Boats during WWII interspaced with his own personal accounts of his experiences as well.

[mookiemookie]

Steel Boats, Iron Hearts is like Iron Coffins, but better. IMHO, of course.

[fastfed]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Steel Boats, Iron Hearts is like Iron Coffins, but better. IMHO, of course.

I know this is old, but I searched my name a week ago to see what I used to write

that said, I took your advice and got Steel boats, Iron hearts.. I read it in less than a day..

WOW!! WHAT A BOOK!!

I had tears in my eyes

Then for some reason since it said it was published in 2008, I thought Hans Gobeler, might still be alive he died in the late 90's

totally better than Iron Coffins.

I wonder if there are any more books that have this emotional effect?

[TorpX]

Jurgen Rohwer, Germany's premier naval historian, savaged [Iron Coffins] in a scathing review. "If one wanted to underline the factual errors [in red], almost every page would be like a blood bath," he observed. ...

I had wondered about this as well. I bought the book and enjoyed it a while ago. Had I known this, I would not have touched it. To me, him selling a fabricated story, as fact, is like someone claiming to have won a Silver Star when they did not. It is very disgusting.

[Gotcha14]

According to an obituary for Herbert A. Werner he died on 4 April 2013 at Vero Beach, Florida, USA. This must be the same man, date of birth, name and location match perfectly (Obitsforlife).

Taken from uboat.net

Rest in peace.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Platapus

For your next read, try Edward Beach's Run Silent Run Deep.

I'm still trying to find a copy of that....

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

I'm still trying to find a copy of that....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...condition=used

[Red October1984]

Weird...

The only copies I've ever found on Amazon were the classic hardcover ones that are like 30$

I'll save this and put it in my next Amazon order. Thanks Steve.