What next after "Iron coffins" And what was false about it??

Platapus · 04-30-12, 05:54 PM

For your next read, try Edward Beach's Run Silent Run Deep.

I think people are being a bit hard on Iron Coffins.

It is a great read and I am sure there are many of us for whom this was one of the first submarine books we read.

The story that Werner tells is true even if some number of the facts are not. Life on a WWII submarine is mostly boring so Werner, in trying to "tell his story" had to speed things up, combine things, and even fill in literary holes.

If one is looking for an encyclopedic read like Clair Blair, Werner's book is not for you.

If, however, you are looking for a perspective into the human aspects of German WWII submarine life, Werner's book captures the humanity.

I have read a few submarine books in my time and few have been able to describe the human side of the German navy like Werner's book.

Why would anyone be surprised at an old navy guy telling war stories that are not 100% factual?

Perhaps he should started the first chapter with "there I was, no <expletive>, staring death in the face....

sharkbit · 05-01-12, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

For your next read, try Edward Beach's Run Silent Run Deep.

Once you're done with that, read the sequel, "Dust on the Sea" and then his third book in the "trilogy", "Cold is the Sea".

"Dust..." continues right where the first left off and "Cold..." takes place during the Cold War.

All are excellent reads.

Also read his book "Submarine". True stories of US Fleet Boats during WWII interspaced with his own personal accounts of his experiences as well.

mookiemookie · 05-01-12, 01:40 PM

Steel Boats, Iron Hearts is like Iron Coffins, but better. IMHO, of course.

fastfed · 01-31-13, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Steel Boats, Iron Hearts is like Iron Coffins, but better. IMHO, of course.

I know this is old, but I searched my name a week ago to see what I used to write

that said, I took your advice and got Steel boats, Iron hearts.. I read it in less than a day..

WOW!! WHAT A BOOK!!

I had tears in my eyes

Then for some reason since it said it was published in 2008, I thought Hans Gobeler, might still be alive

he died in the late 90's

totally better than Iron Coffins.

I wonder if there are any more books that have this emotional effect?

TorpX · 02-01-13, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Jurgen Rohwer, Germany's premier naval historian, savaged [Iron Coffins] in a scathing review. "If one wanted to underline the factual errors [in red], almost every page would be like a blood bath," he observed. ...

I had wondered about this as well. I bought the book and enjoyed it a while ago. Had I known this, I would not have touched it. To me, him selling a fabricated story, as fact, is like someone claiming to have won a Silver Star when they did not. It is very disgusting.

Gotcha14 · 06-16-13, 06:50 AM

According to an obituary for Herbert A. Werner he died on 4 April 2013 at Vero Beach, Florida, USA. This must be the same man, date of birth, name and location match perfectly (Obitsforlife).

Taken from uboat.net

Rest in peace.

Herr-Berbunch · 06-16-13, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastfed

I wonder if there are any more books that have this emotional effect?

I had a tear in my eye reading Chickenhawk when I was 16. 20 years later it was good but not the same effect, in fact I wondered at which part I found emotional.

Red October1984 · 06-16-13, 02:05 PM

I was pretty sad when I finished Threat Vector.... I had finished all of Tom Clancy's Books....

Packlife · 07-19-13, 01:01 AM

I'm actually waiting for Iron Coffins to come in at my library, had to request it, also requested Das Boot book an the blu ray special edition(for a 2nd time

). I have read some excerpts from Iron Coffin, what I wanted to mention was as far as some thinking he was straight up lying about what he did or didnt sink, it was common among many many commanders to think they hit a ship an in reality didnt. Most of the time they relied on sound they'd fire an dive or fire an lower the periscope since they knew the escorts would be coming for payback. I just finished the book Wolf Pack the story of the U-Boat in WW2 an it talked about the differences between the allied records an the German records. It listed a few reasons why a Kaleun or the watch crew may of mistaken the amount of ships hit an sunk, such as pre-mature detonations, inexperienced crewman, ships actually being struck by the eel's but not sinking etc. I think the Allies, mainly Britain didn't always give out honest reports on sunken merchant ships, for two reasons, 1 being so they could continue to get more ships to become merchants for them. Like "Oh look the U-Boats are not as good as ppl make them out to be see?" cuz they had to recruit ships, an number two, propaganda to discourage the Germans an to cause confusion inside BDU. An for Werner saying he wasn't a Nazi I believe it Donitz went to pretty big lenghts to keep Nazis out of the U-Boats especially political officers, like the soviet commissars, I guess the German Navy had a history of trying to keep political types out, but from what I've read Donitz definitely didn't want them in his U-Boats.

Red October1984 · 06-16-13, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

For your next read, try Edward Beach's Run Silent Run Deep.

I'm still trying to find a copy of that....

Sailor Steve · 06-16-13, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red October1984

I'm still trying to find a copy of that....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...condition=used

Red October1984 · 06-16-13, 11:29 AM

Weird...

The only copies I've ever found on Amazon were the classic hardcover ones that are like 30$

I'll save this and put it in my next Amazon order.

Thanks Steve.

04-30-12, 05:54 PM	#1
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,375 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	For your next read, try Edward Beach's Run Silent Run Deep. I think people are being a bit hard on Iron Coffins. It is a great read and I am sure there are many of us for whom this was one of the first submarine books we read. The story that Werner tells is true even if some number of the facts are not. Life on a WWII submarine is mostly boring so Werner, in trying to "tell his story" had to speed things up, combine things, and even fill in literary holes. If one is looking for an encyclopedic read like Clair Blair, Werner's book is not for you. If, however, you are looking for a perspective into the human aspects of German WWII submarine life, Werner's book captures the humanity. I have read a few submarine books in my time and few have been able to describe the human side of the German navy like Werner's book. Why would anyone be surprised at an old navy guy telling war stories that are not 100% factual? Perhaps he should started the first chapter with "there I was, no <expletive>, staring death in the face.... __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

05-01-12, 01:40 PM	#3
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	Steel Boats, Iron Hearts is like Iron Coffins, but better. IMHO, of course. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

06-16-13, 02:05 PM	#8
Red October1984 Airplane Nerd Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 6,243 Downloads: 115 Uploads: 0	I was pretty sad when I finished Threat Vector.... I had finished all of Tom Clancy's Books.... __________________

06-16-13, 11:29 AM	#12
Red October1984 Airplane Nerd Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 6,243 Downloads: 115 Uploads: 0	Weird... The only copies I've ever found on Amazon were the classic hardcover ones that are like 30$ I'll save this and put it in my next Amazon order. Thanks Steve. __________________

06-16-13, 06:50 AM	#6
Gotcha14 Bilge Rat Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	According to an obituary for Herbert A. Werner he died on 4 April 2013 at Vero Beach, Florida, USA. This must be the same man, date of birth, name and location match perfectly (Obitsforlife). Taken from uboat.net Rest in peace.

07-19-13, 01:01 AM	#9
Packlife Gunner Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 91 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	I'm actually waiting for Iron Coffins to come in at my library, had to request it, also requested Das Boot book an the blu ray special edition(for a 2nd time ). I have read some excerpts from Iron Coffin, what I wanted to mention was as far as some thinking he was straight up lying about what he did or didnt sink, it was common among many many commanders to think they hit a ship an in reality didnt. Most of the time they relied on sound they'd fire an dive or fire an lower the periscope since they knew the escorts would be coming for payback. I just finished the book Wolf Pack the story of the U-Boat in WW2 an it talked about the differences between the allied records an the German records. It listed a few reasons why a Kaleun or the watch crew may of mistaken the amount of ships hit an sunk, such as pre-mature detonations, inexperienced crewman, ships actually being struck by the eel's but not sinking etc. I think the Allies, mainly Britain didn't always give out honest reports on sunken merchant ships, for two reasons, 1 being so they could continue to get more ships to become merchants for them. Like "Oh look the U-Boats are not as good as ppl make them out to be see?" cuz they had to recruit ships, an number two, propaganda to discourage the Germans an to cause confusion inside BDU. An for Werner saying he wasn't a Nazi I believe it Donitz went to pretty big lenghts to keep Nazis out of the U-Boats especially political officers, like the soviet commissars, I guess the German Navy had a history of trying to keep political types out, but from what I've read Donitz definitely didn't want them in his U-Boats.