Woman calls 911, says she strangled autistic children

[Platapus]

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/07...id=yczIhF64nEl

An Irving, Texas, woman told a 911 operator that she strangled her two young children Monday because they were autistic, according to a recording of the call. ...

A woman who identified herself as Akhter called police Monday evening and said she first tried to kill her children with bathroom cleaner, but they would not drink it. She told the 911 operator that she then strangled them with a wire and that they were on her bed.


....

"First, I tried to give them bathroom cleaner. I put in their mouth, but they don't drink it. I want them to drink it. They don't drink it. ... I grabbed their neck ... and they are no more," she says on the tape.
The operator continues to talk to the woman to keep her on the phone until officers arrive. She asks why she killed her children, and the woman says she wanted normal children.
"They are autistic. I don't want my kids to be autistic," she is heard saying in an even tone.

Whiskey

Tango
Foxtrot


I am never surprised at the depths humans can sink. Often disgusted, angry, and sickened, but never surprised. Well there is one good thing, this happened in Texas. Let's see what the Texas judiciary does with this case.


At least her 911 call will make it very hard for an insanity defense.

[SteamWake]

2 year old 5 year old defies comprehension.

Did I miss any mention as to the father?

[Platapus]

The father probably dumped all three of them.

These kids probably never had a real chance. Most sad.

Originally Posted by Platapus

The father probably dumped all three of them.

These kids probably never had a real chance. Most sad.

Ah, the "blame the father/men are the bad guys" mentality! It's amazing what 40+ years of man-hating/male-bashing feminism and social engineering can achieve!

SHE admitted to killing HER own kids and you're looking to criminalize and blame the father?! Dude, quit being such a sexist jerk! Women commit crimes too you know! Fact is, women kill their own kids more often than men do by far.

Or are you saying that men shouldn't have the right to leave their wives and children to start a new life for themselves when they feel their marriage is broken? Is this a right that you feel that should only be allowed for women or something? Is an unhappy and broken marriage in the best interest of the children? Nope.

Besides, how do you know that she didn't divorce her husband (women seek and initiate divorce at a ratio of 8 to 2 in the US) and the VERY pro-woman/sexist-against-men custody court didn't award her sole or primary custody of the kids simply because she was missing the extra skin between her legs? You do realize that women get custody of their children 9 times out of 10 in the US right? - Which is amazing to me considering the very low amount of crime that fathers commit against their own children in the US and the better-off overall children they tend to raise. Did you know that single fathers generally produce better-off (drug-free, better grades, high school graduates, more disciplined, better work ethic, and land better paying jobs) children than single mothers do? Yet, the courts still seem to think that children are better-off with their mothers for some sexist BS reason?!

Fact is, this country is so sexist against men that the US government runs adds on the TV telling men to "Be a father today" towards their kids - As if there are not just as many women that could be told to "Be a mother today" just the same! Where are those ads at huh?

It's obvious that man-hating/male-bashing feminism and social engineering has certainly established a very solid "a man must be to blame" attitude in this country it's sickening!

Why don't you hold the talking dog to her word in this case? She's the criminal! She admitted that and must pay for her crime. I hope she gets her f-ing head chopped off personally! I can't stand anybody that would hurt or kill a child. I don't care if she was insane or not when she did it. The fact is - SHE DID IT! Her death would benefit the rest of society (less tax dollars) and probably benefit her too because living with a guilty conciseness for the rest of your life would amount to cruelty! Just kill the stupid cow and be done with it!

[August]

Originally Posted by thorn69

Or are you saying that men shouldn't have the right to leave their wives and children to start a new life for themselves when they feel their marriage is broken?

Wives sure, children never. Absent fathers are a major cause of the juvenile related problems in this country and the idea that a man can just abandon his own children because they get in the way of his enjoyment of life contributes to it. I can think of few things that would make me respect a man any less.

Oh and you might learn a little respect for your fellow forum members too. Platapus doesn't deserve it.

Originally Posted by August

Wives sure, children never. Absent fathers are a major cause of the juvenile related problems in this country

Maybe women should think about this before initiated divorce at a ratio of 8 to 2! Not to mention that 90% of divorce is in regards to "financial" reasons. Basically the two numbers tells me that if the guy isn't making enough money to please her - she's done with him despite what's in the best interests of their children.

and the idea that a man can just abandon his own children because they get in the way of his enjoyment of life contributes to it. I can think of few things that would make me respect a man any less.

Are men not allowed to be free citizens too? You seem to want to blame men for all the problems in the relationship. What if he was being abused by his wife? Dude, a forced and unhealthy relationship would be a lot worse for everybody in that household - kids included.

Women just abort children when they feel they are going to be in the way of their own lives. Men don't have that sort of selfish luxury so men are forced into a lifestyle of whatever women choose to do with their bodies. So don't blame a man for leaving a relationship that he wasn't happy with just because some woman wanted to have kids with him to entrap him into a relationship with her. If the relationship isn't going to work for him then it's not going to work for anyone period. That's worse for the kids and the woman then having him around by far. I've also seen quite a few women abandon their kids to their ex and run off to shack up with another man. It goes both ways.

Men who kill children usually do it because of sexual mental disorders that were developed by childhood abuse they suffered themselves. Women usually kill children because of greed and selfishness because the kids were in the way of the new lifestyle they were perusing.

Recently there was a woman who divorced her husband and married another guy she had been cheating on her first husband with. She had won custody of her son, despite her ex husbands pleas to the court that she wasn't stable. Then, she and her new lover killed the boy and got married in the same day. I think the new lover beat her son to death in front of her and she did nothing to stop him. She encouraged him to kill her son. Then they buried the boy in a bag along the side of a cliff. Then she felt guilty and turned herself and her new husband over to the authorities.

There was also that woman in Florida that killed her own daughter because she wanted to go clubbing and hook up with guys. She was afraid that no guy would want her if they knew she had a kid already. Haven't heard much about her case in awhile though. I hope some female inmate killed her in prison.

Oh and you might learn a little respect for your fellow forum members too. Platapus doesn't deserve it.

BTW.. Maybe Platapus should be a little more respectful and not so sexist with his "blame the guy" attitude. Like I said before, it goes both ways.

[jumpy]

Originally Posted by Platapus

At least her 911 call will make it very hard for an insanity defence.

Yes, but what part of what was reported in the article appeared to be the actions of a sane individual?

Infanticide is a strange and terrible crime... the workings of which I would not call 'sane' under all but the most obvious circumstances.

[August]

Originally Posted by jumpy

Yes, but what part of what was reported in the article appeared to be the actions of a sane individual?

Infanticide is a strange and terrible crime... the workings of which I would not call 'sane' under all but the most obvious circumstances.

Exactly. Crimes like this are by definition "insane" but that shouldn't become a ticket to escape paying for it. If it happened like the article says then, crazy or not, I say put her in a cell and weld the door shut. You can't rehabilitate a sociopath.

[tater]

Originally Posted by August

Exactly. Crimes like this are by definition "insane" but that shouldn't become a ticket to escape paying for it. If it happened like the article says then, crazy or not, I say put her in a cell and weld the door shut. You can't rehabilitate a sociopath.

This.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

Exactly. Crimes like this are by definition "insane" but that shouldn't become a ticket to escape paying for it.

True, but I would start even earlier and say it is insane what kind of couples under what kind of conditions sometimes have children. Some people simply should not have kids, nor should they have pets are be allowed to drive cars.

You can't rehabilitate a sociopath.

True again - if only so many socially engaged helpers and psychologists and sociologists would not deny it and accept big risks for the general public in attempts of doing social engineering on such individuals inn order to prove the expertise of theior profession. Not all of them, maybe not even a majority of professionals are like this - but still too many, for my taste, especially in contexts of judicial assessments. The dangers of certain persons and personalities get minimised, ignored or whitewashed too often, for my taste.

Some people simply should not have kids, nor should they have pets are be allowed to drive cars.

Sounds like an old quote about racial hygiene, has sky been at My Struggle again?

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by jumpy

Yes, but what part of what was reported in the article appeared to be the actions of a sane individual?

Infanticide is a strange and terrible crime... the workings of which I would not call 'sane' under all but the most obvious circumstances.

While August's comments are quite correct, the point I was making is that attempting to kill someone with one method, and when that method does not work, switching to another method makes it hard to use the insanity (I did not know that what I was doing was wrong) defense. That and her voluntary statement (no Miranda concerns here) that she killed them because she did not want autistic children, will seal her fate.

I don't think a Texas jury will buy an insanity defense on this one.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Platapus

While August's comments are quite correct, the point I was making is that attempting to kill someone with one method, and when that method does not work, switching to another method makes it hard to use the insanity (I did not know that what I was doing was wrong) defense. That and her voluntary statement (no Miranda concerns here) that she killed them because she did not want autistic children, will seal her fate.

I don't think a Texas jury will buy an insanity defense on this one.

Insanity has far more variety than complete normality or complete incoherence. It is all very well to fire condemnation in a blind, normative fashion at a case of infanticide, but somehow I doubt any of you complainers here are:
1) Autistics (presumably of the "High Functioning" variety or you won't be functional enough to type)
2) Relatives (especially parents) of autistics.

Being someone diagnosed with "autistic tendencies" back in the late 80s, I can confirm the common medical opinion that it is in fact incurable. Though extensive "early intervention" (I think this was before Lovaas technique or any of the newer ones) worked well enough I marginally fit in society, I can count countless cases of minor social faux pas, auditory handling difficulties ... etc and though I like the fact that I can look at many things in our society in ways that my "neurotypical" brethren cannot, I can definitely conclude that overall life as an autistic is no bowl of cherries, and I'm probably on the very edge of autism, any better and it'll likely have gone undiagnosed entirely.

Now, consider how much "fun" it'll be to be parenting such kids, trying to bludgeon them into some semblance of normality or at least of limited independence. Without having experienced the actual despair and hopelessness of this entire enterprise, un-objective normative "blindfire" lambasting of this tragedy does no one any good.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Now, consider how much "fun" it'll be to be parenting such kids, trying to bludgeon them into some semblance of normality or at least of limited independence. Without having experienced the actual despair and hopelessness of this entire enterprise, un-objective normative "blindfire" lambasting of this tragedy does no one any good.

It really is difficult, and I think it takes a lot of support for people raising autistic kinds to really make it through. I think there is no question that while what the mother did is extremely wrong, I don't think we can immediately assume full responsibility and blame here. There has got to be more to the story, and she should never have been allowed to get to such a state. She failed, but somewhere somehow I am sure that someone had failed her too.

I lost a severely autistic cousin this year and this was really devastating for the entire family. She had really given me a sense of how really life-changing it is to have an autistic child in the family, both in good and bad ways. To say they are difficult to deal with is an understatement. To say they are not able to have a good life in the care of a family is also untrue, but only if the family supports each other in the endeavour - this is extremely hard work. For my cousin, it meant 24/7 work. It literally turned her mother's (i.e. my aunt's) entire life almost 180 degrees - she had to start on a completely new career and education path, and in fact a whole side of my family revolved around my autistic cousin for the 11 years of her life. She gave everyone a sort of center for attention and care. Tragically, she died in an accident 5 months ago, in part due to a minute lapse in that 24/7 supervision she needed.

As for this case, no dispute that this is homicide. But I personally hope for a term of non-optional medical and psychiatric care for the mother rather than punishment. Her future life needs to be monitored. I don't think the society stands to gain anything from throwing this woman in jail and removing her from the streets. She probably poses more danger to herself now than to anyone else.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by CCIP

As for this case, no dispute that this is homicide. But I personally hope for a term of non-optional medical and psychiatric care for the mother rather than punishment. Her future life needs to be monitored. I don't think the society stands to gain anything from throwing this woman in jail and removing her from the streets. She probably poses more danger to herself now than to anyone else.

I'm very sorry for your loss....your words in quotes struck a chord in me though.

My wife has a cousin who gave birth to a child with autism and I have witnessed the distress and pressures suddenly affecting so many peoples lives. She is lucky I suppose in the sense that Social Services are supporting her with professional care, day care and regular respite etc.

One major underlying factor never changes though....her child is as deeply loved and valued as those of her other two children, despite the constant challenges she displays.

Yes your right, this women desperately needs help but seeing as how she made at least two attempts to commit the crime it is more than likely the act was premeditaed.

I hope she gets the help she needs but I think that will happen in an environment/establishment that has bars on its windows.