Woman calls 911, says she strangled autistic children

[Platapus]

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/07...id=yczIhF64nEl

An Irving, Texas, woman told a 911 operator that she strangled her two young children Monday because they were autistic, according to a recording of the call. ...

A woman who identified herself as Akhter called police Monday evening and said she first tried to kill her children with bathroom cleaner, but they would not drink it. She told the 911 operator that she then strangled them with a wire and that they were on her bed.


....

"First, I tried to give them bathroom cleaner. I put in their mouth, but they don't drink it. I want them to drink it. They don't drink it. ... I grabbed their neck ... and they are no more," she says on the tape.
The operator continues to talk to the woman to keep her on the phone until officers arrive. She asks why she killed her children, and the woman says she wanted normal children.
"They are autistic. I don't want my kids to be autistic," she is heard saying in an even tone.

Whiskey

Tango
Foxtrot


I am never surprised at the depths humans can sink. Often disgusted, angry, and sickened, but never surprised. Well there is one good thing, this happened in Texas. Let's see what the Texas judiciary does with this case.


At least her 911 call will make it very hard for an insanity defense.

[SteamWake]

2 year old 5 year old defies comprehension.

Did I miss any mention as to the father?

[Platapus]

The father probably dumped all three of them.

These kids probably never had a real chance. Most sad.

[jumpy]

Originally Posted by Platapus

At least her 911 call will make it very hard for an insanity defence.

Yes, but what part of what was reported in the article appeared to be the actions of a sane individual?

Infanticide is a strange and terrible crime... the workings of which I would not call 'sane' under all but the most obvious circumstances.

[August]

Originally Posted by jumpy

Yes, but what part of what was reported in the article appeared to be the actions of a sane individual?

Infanticide is a strange and terrible crime... the workings of which I would not call 'sane' under all but the most obvious circumstances.

Exactly. Crimes like this are by definition "insane" but that shouldn't become a ticket to escape paying for it. If it happened like the article says then, crazy or not, I say put her in a cell and weld the door shut. You can't rehabilitate a sociopath.

[tater]

Originally Posted by August

Exactly. Crimes like this are by definition "insane" but that shouldn't become a ticket to escape paying for it. If it happened like the article says then, crazy or not, I say put her in a cell and weld the door shut. You can't rehabilitate a sociopath.

This.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by jumpy

Yes, but what part of what was reported in the article appeared to be the actions of a sane individual?

Infanticide is a strange and terrible crime... the workings of which I would not call 'sane' under all but the most obvious circumstances.

While August's comments are quite correct, the point I was making is that attempting to kill someone with one method, and when that method does not work, switching to another method makes it hard to use the insanity (I did not know that what I was doing was wrong) defense. That and her voluntary statement (no Miranda concerns here) that she killed them because she did not want autistic children, will seal her fate.

I don't think a Texas jury will buy an insanity defense on this one.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Platapus

While August's comments are quite correct, the point I was making is that attempting to kill someone with one method, and when that method does not work, switching to another method makes it hard to use the insanity (I did not know that what I was doing was wrong) defense. That and her voluntary statement (no Miranda concerns here) that she killed them because she did not want autistic children, will seal her fate.

I don't think a Texas jury will buy an insanity defense on this one.

Insanity has far more variety than complete normality or complete incoherence. It is all very well to fire condemnation in a blind, normative fashion at a case of infanticide, but somehow I doubt any of you complainers here are:
1) Autistics (presumably of the "High Functioning" variety or you won't be functional enough to type)
2) Relatives (especially parents) of autistics.

Being someone diagnosed with "autistic tendencies" back in the late 80s, I can confirm the common medical opinion that it is in fact incurable. Though extensive "early intervention" (I think this was before Lovaas technique or any of the newer ones) worked well enough I marginally fit in society, I can count countless cases of minor social faux pas, auditory handling difficulties ... etc and though I like the fact that I can look at many things in our society in ways that my "neurotypical" brethren cannot, I can definitely conclude that overall life as an autistic is no bowl of cherries, and I'm probably on the very edge of autism, any better and it'll likely have gone undiagnosed entirely.

Now, consider how much "fun" it'll be to be parenting such kids, trying to bludgeon them into some semblance of normality or at least of limited independence. Without having experienced the actual despair and hopelessness of this entire enterprise, un-objective normative "blindfire" lambasting of this tragedy does no one any good.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Now, consider how much "fun" it'll be to be parenting such kids, trying to bludgeon them into some semblance of normality or at least of limited independence. Without having experienced the actual despair and hopelessness of this entire enterprise, un-objective normative "blindfire" lambasting of this tragedy does no one any good.

It really is difficult, and I think it takes a lot of support for people raising autistic kinds to really make it through. I think there is no question that while what the mother did is extremely wrong, I don't think we can immediately assume full responsibility and blame here. There has got to be more to the story, and she should never have been allowed to get to such a state. She failed, but somewhere somehow I am sure that someone had failed her too.

I lost a severely autistic cousin this year and this was really devastating for the entire family. She had really given me a sense of how really life-changing it is to have an autistic child in the family, both in good and bad ways. To say they are difficult to deal with is an understatement. To say they are not able to have a good life in the care of a family is also untrue, but only if the family supports each other in the endeavour - this is extremely hard work. For my cousin, it meant 24/7 work. It literally turned her mother's (i.e. my aunt's) entire life almost 180 degrees - she had to start on a completely new career and education path, and in fact a whole side of my family revolved around my autistic cousin for the 11 years of her life. She gave everyone a sort of center for attention and care. Tragically, she died in an accident 5 months ago, in part due to a minute lapse in that 24/7 supervision she needed.

As for this case, no dispute that this is homicide. But I personally hope for a term of non-optional medical and psychiatric care for the mother rather than punishment. Her future life needs to be monitored. I don't think the society stands to gain anything from throwing this woman in jail and removing her from the streets. She probably poses more danger to herself now than to anyone else.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

Exactly. Crimes like this are by definition "insane" but that shouldn't become a ticket to escape paying for it.

True, but I would start even earlier and say it is insane what kind of couples under what kind of conditions sometimes have children. Some people simply should not have kids, nor should they have pets are be allowed to drive cars.

You can't rehabilitate a sociopath.

True again - if only so many socially engaged helpers and psychologists and sociologists would not deny it and accept big risks for the general public in attempts of doing social engineering on such individuals inn order to prove the expertise of theior profession. Not all of them, maybe not even a majority of professionals are like this - but still too many, for my taste, especially in contexts of judicial assessments. The dangers of certain persons and personalities get minimised, ignored or whitewashed too often, for my taste.

Some people simply should not have kids, nor should they have pets are be allowed to drive cars.

Sounds like an old quote about racial hygiene, has sky been at My Struggle again?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by CCIP

As for this case, no dispute that this is homicide. But I personally hope for a term of non-optional medical and psychiatric care for the mother rather than punishment. Her future life needs to be monitored. I don't think the society stands to gain anything from throwing this woman in jail and removing her from the streets. She probably poses more danger to herself now than to anyone else.

I'm very sorry for your loss....your words in quotes struck a chord in me though.

My wife has a cousin who gave birth to a child with autism and I have witnessed the distress and pressures suddenly affecting so many peoples lives. She is lucky I suppose in the sense that Social Services are supporting her with professional care, day care and regular respite etc.

One major underlying factor never changes though....her child is as deeply loved and valued as those of her other two children, despite the constant challenges she displays.

Yes your right, this women desperately needs help but seeing as how she made at least two attempts to commit the crime it is more than likely the act was premeditaed.

I hope she gets the help she needs but I think that will happen in an environment/establishment that has bars on its windows.

[NeonSamurai]

Sounds more like the continuation of one act, she tried to poison them, failed, then strangled them.

Anyhow... first off the woman is not a sociopath. If she was, the kids would not have lived as long. No sociopath would spend years looking after autistic kids, they would have arranged to get rid of the kids very rapidly, and more "accidentally".

Also I think insanity is a valid defense in this case. She from what I read did not show any rational behavior during the incident. There was no premeditation, no attempt at cover-up, concealment, or denial, she apparently called the police right after and confessed in a toneless voice. I would bet that she did not have the social support network of family & friends to help to look after these kids. Most extended families struggle just to look after one severely autistic child in the greater family.

She obviously did care for those children, or they would not have reached the ages of 2 and 5. I think the major cause was she did not have the resources necessary to care for these children, either financially, socially, or emotionally. The pressure of it with I am sure large helpings of despair and hopelessness triggered this psychotic episode (she snapped).

Anyhow I don't feel that she should be held to blame from what I know of the situation. She was in an impossible position from the sounds of it, and broke under the strain psychologically.

[frau kaleun]

Given that the youngest child was only 2, it's also possible that this woman suffered from some kind of post-partum psychological disorder (depression, anxiety, even psychosis) that went untreated and/or spiralled way out of control. If so, the fact that the children were autistic and presumably required a level of care that even a healthy mother would struggle with certainly wouldn't have helped matters.

In any case, a truly heart-wrenching story.

[AVGWarhawk]

My wife and I have friends with two children with autism and one child that does not exhibit autism. There are many days of trials and tribulations with the two. When the third child was born without signs of autism both exclaimed that they now know what it is like to experience a normal child. Autism is a life long commitment. This they realize as parents. It is a tough situation were state assistance is pretty much nonexistent. The public schools are not much help and it is tough depending on the severity of the autism. I concur, throwing this woman in jail does no good. She needs help. It is unfortunate it ended this way.