Public statement against DRM (yet not SH5)

[martes86]

Hey everybody,

By the title of this thread most of you are already wondering why the hell would we want yet another complaint post out of the hundreds of those already populating the forums. Well, this one is an official complaint from a simulation community like the one I represent, that is, the 24th Flotilla. I don't really know how many communities have officially positioned themselves, but I hope this one serves some purpose.

http://www.24flotilla.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=36407 (both Spanish and English)

Please note that we're still commited in the fight against piracy, and I've recently banned several new members (since I am the global moderator there) just for the very mention of the group that cracked SH5 (despite what Ubisoft is telling us, it's been cracked, and it works), but if even our own Staff members tasked with exploring SH5's tournament capabilities can't play online for several days, then we can't efficiently and credibly defend the game (or make our community work with it), and tell everyone else that they should buy it no matter what. That this supposedly "so-good" DRM system is actually a total fail that has been preventing legal buyers from playing for several days (yet not a problem for pirates), and still counting, and that it only weakens our efforts to actually help Ubi make money by banning those who just download it, no matter the excuse used. Even those that bought it are going for refunds after several days of not being able to play.

That's why we want to, in a civilized manner, ask Ubisoft to retire this painful DRM, and help us in promoting both our passion and their business.

Also, after having had a go at the sim (I bought it the day it came out, right after work), while it has many bugs to be fixed (and mods to be made), I think it has an enormous potential to become the sim of our dreams, and so I'd like to thank the Devs for their efforts (and their will to innovate, to do new stuff), which I'm sure have been beyond the call of duty in lots of times.

Cheers

[Alex]

Ubi doesn't need anybody to help them, they've been helping themselves in promoting their own business, by implementing DRM in this game.

Though your request for international assistance in gathering the largest number of players to form a proper anti-DRM committee is quite noble, I don't think DRM will ever be disabled in the future.



I hold both Neal and the mods in high regard, so let's say that I'm almost ashamed to say that in here... But I'll certainly go the illegal way to disable DRM.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by martes86

Well, this one is an official complaint from a simulation community like the one I represent...

Sorry, but making something official doesn't mean jack ****. Especially when it comes from someone (and I mean communities in general, not the 24th) that doesn't have the power to change anything or in other words put pressure to a company like Ubi.

As long as Ubi has paying customers from it's bigger selling titles, the subsim community very little to say about how Ubi runs things. We are "expendable".

[janh]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Sorry, but making something official doesn't mean jack ****. Especially when it comes from someone (and I mean communities in general, not the 24th) that doesn't have the power to change anything or in other words put pressure to a company like Ubi.

As long as Ubi has paying customers from it's bigger selling titles, the subsim community very little to say about how Ubi runs things. We are "expendable".

Unfortunately looking at the numbers, i.e. realizing that SHV is a niche product in a nice of 9% PC market sales that Ubisoft Corporate reported for 2009, I totally agree.

Even worse, the pirates cracking this damn thing and the likely DDOS attacks (disclaimer: unless it was just badly estimated need for OSP server capacity and architecture) will give Ubisoft all the reason now to claim that they released high value products and got screwed by software piracy again. They will not step back from DRM, and I expect even the $10 bin version will have it.

Ubisofts experiments on DRM in the past decade, its new 2010 business strategy paper and the way this company listens to customers is rather indicative of the importance it does not pays to the latter, but the big black $$$ sign it needs to hold up every year for stockholders and investors. The overall picture is just too consistent to expect any change.

[Gammelpreusse]

Originally Posted by martes86

Hey everybody,

By the title of this thread most of you are already wondering why the hell would we want yet another complaint post out of the hundreds of those already populating the forums. Well, this one is an official complaint from a simulation community like the one I represent, that is, the 24th Flotilla. I don't really know how many communities have officially positioned themselves, but I hope this one serves some purpose.

http://www.24flotilla.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=36407 (both Spanish and English)

Please note that we're still commited in the fight against piracy, and I've recently banned several new members (since I am the global moderator there) just for the very mention of the group that cracked SH5 (despite what Ubisoft is telling us, it's been cracked, and it works), but if even our own Staff members tasked with exploring SH5's tournament capabilities can't play online for several days, then we can't efficiently and credibly defend the game (or make our community work with it), and tell everyone else that they should buy it no matter what. That this supposedly "so-good" DRM system is actually a total fail that has been preventing legal buyers from playing for several days (yet not a problem for pirates), and still counting, and that it only weakens our efforts to actually help Ubi make money by banning those who just download it, no matter the excuse used. Even those that bought it are going for refunds after several days of not being able to play.

That's why we want to, in a civilized manner, ask Ubisoft to retire this painful DRM, and help us in promoting both our passion and their business.

Also, after having had a go at the sim (I bought it the day it came out, right after work), while it has many bugs to be fixed (and mods to be made), I think it has an enormous potential to become the sim of our dreams, and so I'd like to thank the Devs for their efforts (and their will to innovate, to do new stuff), which I'm sure have been beyond the call of duty in lots of times.

Cheers

Good post and my full support. I recon UBI is just a company under immense financial pressure to get the piracy problem under control. I do not see inherit evil there but a certain lack of creativity and way too much stress to topple the problem.

The DRM has to go, that is an absolute given, and UBI has to find ways to make a DRM that is giving something to the players, instead of taking something away. Reward honest customers instead of accepting collateral damage in this obsessive fight against piracy.

That does not take away that SH V is, though buggy as hell, a true pearl waiting to be discovered and worthy of all the support we can deliver.

[Iron Budokan]

Originally Posted by Dowly

As long as Ubi has paying customers from it's bigger selling titles, the subsim community very little to say about how Ubi runs things. We are "expendable".

^^This.

[rsvette12]

Well said Martes

Rich

[thyro]

UBI doesn't care about fan clubs otherwise they wouldn't have implemented such hedius DRM software.

I do not subscribe piracy but in this case let pirates win the battle (if they are really doing anything, and if is not UBI incompetence causing the problems!)

Anyway as long time customer of UBI I don't give a f**k if UBI sales go terrible/or if the company gets in trouble. It will be a good thing and would make that company to come down to the real world.

The message must be return faulty games into the shops if you bought it and cannot play when you want. OR DO NOT BUY a troublesome incomplete game such as it is SH5.

[janh]

Originally Posted by thyro

The message must be return faulty games into the shops if you bought it and cannot play when you want.

But this message is gone now, thanks to the piracy efforts. Now they can blame it again in the latter, without having to look at themselves for fault. Like they did with SHIV.

[Nordmann]

We might have been able to do something about it, if people could only have restrained themselves from buying the damned game. But no, for all the complaints, they go like lambs to the slaughter.

Ubi must be having a good laugh at our expense (well, your expense, I didn't buy it), because they know that they can release a half finished product, with ridiculous restrictions, and their loyal fans will go right ahead and buy it regardless.

[subsimlee]

Nordmann, GameStop/E.B. gave me my money back and told me Assasins' Creed for Xbox 360 was down for days last week causing a major web flameup..They have been taking SH5 copies back at an ever increasing rate and going after UBI but figure UBI just wants to cut retailers right out of the loop anyway.

[martes86]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Sorry, but making something official doesn't mean jack ****. Especially when it comes from someone (and I mean communities in general, not the 24th) that doesn't have the power to change anything or in other words put pressure to a company like Ubi.

As long as Ubi has paying customers from it's bigger selling titles, the subsim community very little to say about how Ubi runs things. We are "expendable".

I'd like to think that things are a little brighter than that. They may not care about individuals, but whole nodes of players, communities, complaining all at once against this, it must have some effect, some repercussions, how could it be possible that a whole group of people positioned against it, and nothing happens?

Even better... do you really think that if Subsim officially positioned against DRM (and as an extention, the whole community or most of it), that it wouldn't make any difference? The thing of good-press/bad-press doesn't matter anything these days? Just getting money does? I doubt it in this case (maybe true in others with a little less media attention). Sadly, Subsim is far from doing that (I understand that Subsim has a stand to keep), so I guess we'll never know.

Originally Posted by Nordmann

We might have been able to do something about it, if people could only have restrained themselves from buying the damned game. But no, for all the complaints, they go like lambs to the slaughter.

Ubi must be having a good laugh at our expense (well, your expense, I didn't buy it), because they know that they can release a half finished product, with ridiculous restrictions, and their loyal fans will go right ahead and buy it regardless.

Well, there's other ways to show disagreement... plain boycott isn't the only way to do things (I find it too extreme a measure), and it might actually be the killing shot to future subsim developments. And, anyways, it seems like refunds are up to date these days, so maybe income is much lower than initially expected.

Cheers

[thyro]

Originally Posted by martes86

...


Well, there's other ways to show disagreement... plain boycott isn't the only way to do things (I find it too extreme a measure), and it might actually be the killing shot to future subsim developments. And, anyways, it seems like refunds are up to date these days, so maybe income is much lower than initially expected.

Cheers

Though!

Sell me something I want to buy not something you want to sell.

I'm their customer not UBI is my customer. And as customer I do not surrender my information and rights for free in name of piracy. If are hackers doing the job then my contratulations to them. But I suspect that is the shear incompetence of UBI on providing the service and easily blaming hackers/pirates for going fast to a fail!

I'm sorry but I have no pity on UBI regarding that and if they back track and sell a game rather than rubish the I'll be happy to buy it.

[thyro]

Originally Posted by martes86

I'd like to think that things are a little brighter than that. They may not care about individuals, but whole nodes of players, communities, complaining all at once against this, it must have some effect, some repercussions, how could it be possible that a whole group of people positioned against it, and nothing happens?
Cheers

They do not care about individuals and they do not care about fanclubs; because this DRM matter has been well discussed even UBI had not released a preview neither a beta game for testers. So UBI ignored everything and everyone so the only thing they listen is money. Therefore hit hard on money, and I as customer do my bit because I dont think that their product named SH5 is worth the money under this conditions even it was a complete game with all details possible and imaginary.

But unfortunatly apart from the good name series then managed to produce a hell of a rubish by adding all the pointless online restrictions to a game that cannot be played if doesn't existe internent or if internent is intermitent.

A rubish SH5 product that isn't worth its money... UBI must be paying their customers to play SH5 not otherwise.

As I said earlier post... Sell me what I want to buy not what you want to sell!

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Nordmann

We might have been able to do something about it, if people could only have restrained themselves from buying the damned game. But no, for all the complaints, they go like lambs to the slaughter.

Ubi must be having a good laugh at our expense (well, your expense, I didn't buy it), because they know that they can release a half finished product, with ridiculous restrictions, and their loyal fans will go right ahead and buy it regardless.

That is the best and only point that can be said in a situation like this.

If we are unhappy with the product, as more than a majority of us are, let our wallets do the talking. Many people were unhappy about DRM, and made vows and what not, but they were little more than talk. They bought the game anyways, just as you said being sheep, but now complain when the server goes down and they can't play. It is people like this that make the cause of fighting DRM like systems a losing cause. Because they will still buy the game, giving the company exactly what they want. And once they have what they want, they do not care whether we are happy or not as we have seen with SHIV (thanks to the modding community it is a great game.)

I am surprised at the people on subsim. I have been here since the announcement of SH3. Many times during the development of SH3 and SH4 subsim was given alot of say and respect (hell we changed the release date of SH3 so we could get a dynamic campaign!). Yet with SH5 we were all but left in the dark had it not been for Neal. That first and foremost was the big red flag for me. Slapping a community in the face that has been helping carry your releases in a certain niche. Then the fact that the game only plays out to 43? Big red flag number two. This told me that if fact they were releasing half a product, no doubt with plans to make the "expansion" or "DLC" play out till 45. Last and certainly not least DRM. The thrid and final and most important big red flag. You have to be online and connected to a server in order to play the game you paid for? Pff, what a joke and anyone who bought into that is just the same joke, and the joke is far far from being funny. Willing to give up their freedom in order to play the "latest" and "best" version of SH. All that did was slap SH series. Now those some people are reaping the consequences of jumping on board a sinking ship.

To me this fiasco is not unlike the Empire Total War fiasco. Anyone who knows of that game knows that there were huge promises made during pre-release of how wonderful the game was and the AI and the graphics and the playability and the modding tools. Yet once released the only thing they delivered on was the graphics. The game hardly worked, and even the lead developer of another company called out Sega and CA saying that there isn't even an AI in the game. CA claims to have been happy with the game upon release, yet 9 months after the fact one of the dev teams posted how he was so embarrassed with the game that he wouldn't even give the game to his friends. Yet they had no problems lying to the community they had built so much respect with and selling them a broken game. Then on top of all of that, instead of fixing the game (which is still broke as hell even with some of the best mods) they instead announce that they are working on another game. Not even an expansion, but a different game all together. Nailing the final nail in their coffin for me. Because they slapped me and the TW community in the face I will no longer purchase any TW games upon release and more than likely will not buy them period. AS a result, of not just me but of the entire community (save the few brainwashed ones) NTW sales have suffered greatly. Rightfully so. The same should be done with SH5 and UBI.

UBI is doing the same thing and I see the writing on the wall. I do feel a certain pain for the people who bought the game with high hopes. I had done the same with ETW. I know you pain and your frustration. But just as SEGA/CA didn't care, UBI will not care as well. They are and have turned their backs on the subsim community, period.

But maybe this is a great thing. I imagine a better run company who respects their customers more will pick up the SH series and make it better than UBI ever tried to (with the exception of SH3).