sh5 -dont go backwards ((interview concerns))

[codmander]

Fact 1... is I love the silient hunter series, but after reading that new sh5 interview I have concerns, being a realizm player like many of us here. any kind of dumbing down of sh5 will be devastating! I think they should make this SIM just that a SIM .. I think most players((captains)) would adjust..
I HOPE I'm wrong and sh5 is gangbusters for us realizm guys and the dumbing down will not effect or interfere with realism... Think of what this Sim could be if they went for realism WOW I Think they would get even more buyers and followers of the silent hunter series
MERRY XMASS AM I JUST A WORRY WART?

Some of the sh3 down dumb features are unremoveable for realizm and allthough I do enjoy these sims to the fullest ,,Its an annoyance

[Brag]

SH 3 with GWX is a great game/sim. Improving on it with more realistic graphics, a full boat interior and more interaction with crew is enough to make SH 5 a superb game.

SH-5 should not go back to the SH-2 fragmented campaigns.

Having convoys and other enemy activity scripted close to historical events is what we need.

Of course, receiving real orders to go and participate in such campgaigns like Wesserubung or assist Bismark would be welcome.

An arcade setting could provide a parade of ships and convoys for players inclined to this sort of gameplay.

WE, the hardcore backers of the SH series, deserve nothing less than GWX type campaigns.

It would be good if the Bucharesties would clarify this area of uncertainty.

Besties to the Devs and hope you're having a great Christmas.

i think you are correct BUT i believe and hope very much that it will have a realism option as well so you get sh5 the game or sh5 the sim and you choose the way you want to play

the devs are not just working on some game, they are big fans of SH series and i get the impression they play and enjoy the game as much as many of us do so they share your concerns even though they take direction from the suits

I think that Codmander (and others) have raised some relevant issues but none will be answered until the release of SH5.

Still there has been a constant shedding of desirable features in all "simulator" games, particularly submarine simulations even as video effects and graphics improve exponentially. Unfortunately there is no evidence that SH5 will stop this trend and much to indicate that it will continue towards an eventual lowest common denominator shoot-em-up extravaganza. Perhaps not with SH5 but that is the trend as I see it.

I wonder about the timing of release for SH5 and would not be greatly surprised if the launch was intended to kill GWX4 while still under development. Given the quality of the GWX series, allowing it to see the light of day would have, in all likelyhood, set the bar for features deemed "realistic" very high and probably much higher than desirable for a game intended for a wider audiance than just the so-called hard-core subsimmer. I am not contending any evil conspiracy here but it is good business practice to ensure any potential and possibly superior competition never sees the light of day particularly if the product in question is offered for free. Given the smallish niche nature of the sub-sim market and overall global economic malaise the timing of the SH5 announcement seems odd.

By definition the hard-core sub-simmer constitutes a minority of customers and frankly, the sense of entitlement that seems to abound here regarding what UBSoft "must" include to make "them" happy seems wildly optimistic and somewhat misplaced. The much maligned suits are beholding only to the UBSoft shareholders to produce a profit and if that entails catering to the majority and trading difficult to script advanced features that have no hope of totally pleasing a minority of hard-core customers anyway for easy to generate eye-candy, they would be fools not to follow this path.

The income generated by a single copy of SH5 sold to a hard-core simmer is identical to that generated by a casual gamer who just wants to blow things up as easily and with as much graphical illusion as possible. If the latter represent a larger customer pool, not pandering to them would be bad for business. Conversely leaving the creation of the features desired by the hard-core minority to unpaid modders also makes good business sense provided they are willing to build mod-ability into the game engine.

Being entirely indifferent to eye candy and finding the prospects of continual interaction with a computer generated "crew" irritating rather than immersive, I have seen little to date to commend SH5 as superior to SH3 or SH4 at least personally. However, I will probably buy it at some point but that will largely depend on what parts of the sound and light spectacular I can disable.

Good Hunting

Edit
Need to add that SH3 and SH4 in the context above refers to SH3+GWX and SH4+TMO+RSRD. While these are not the only super-mods they are of a quality and level of detail that provide pretty solid evidence that UBSoft is willing to leave catering to the hard-core sub-simmer to unpaid modders rather than spending the resources to include these features upon initial release.

[finchOU]

"SH 3 with GWX is a great game/sim. Improving on it with more realistic graphics, a full boat interior and more interaction with crew is enough to make SH 5 a superb game."

I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. While these traits might make it superb to you....it makes me think of a subpar effort of the development of this series. Think about this...how long have first person interfaces been around? How long has it taken to develope this into this sim? These things...though new to the "Series" is far from making it a good game. It might add some immersion...but overall there are "glaring" issues that have not been addressed or completely ingored....even worse...these issues could not be modded. All I see right now (very little footage seen I might add) is fluff...but thats just me.

[THE_MASK]

I thought modders asked for SH5 to be more moddable , to allow modders to mod more of the game and to be able to make more mods . The games not even out so whats this discussion about again ?

[Apocal]

Originally Posted by Randomizer

Still there has been a constant shedding of desirable features in all "simulator" games, particularly submarine simulations even as video effects and graphics improve exponentially.

What features are these?

What features are these?

Aces of the Deep

- The ability to abandon ship with the possibility of escaping capture and resuming a career interpted by the loss of your boat.

- An interactive BdU that during the wolf pack years would spawn AI U-Boats to converge on your convoy reports and attack. Sometimes BdU would order you to shadow a convoy and not attack for this reason.

- When short of fuel BdU would set up rendevous with U-Tankers at specific locations not known in advance. The amount of fuel recieved was random and often barely enough to get home.

- Your boat leaked - constantly like all real-world ships do. Silent running caused water to accumulate which affected bouyancy and created all manner of problems when evading escorts.

- Air dropped acoustic homing torpedoes.

- Local times for sunrise and sunset provided on the calendar.

- Escorts had FOXER/CAT Gear as applicable.

Silent Hunter

- Phases of the moon provided on the calendar.

- AI enemy submarines that actually submerged.

- Radars whose displays conformed to the period being simulated, either PPI or A-Scope and not both and that could be turned off at will.

- A bathythermograph gauge that required monitoring to determine where the thermal layer was - if there was one.

- Keyboard control of dive planes.

SH2

- The ability to use electric motors on the surface.

- The ability to write (limited) log enteries.

All of the above were nice immersive features (in my opinion) that created reasonable problems for the virtual sub captain and both SH3 and SH4 are poorer for their deletion, seemingly in preferance to nifty graphics. It's probably a safe bet that SH5 will have nothing similar to any of them. But it will have an annoying cook avatar offering insights into soup.

One guy's thoughts.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by codmander

Fact 1... is I love the silient hunter series, but after reading that new sh5 interview I have concerns, being a realizm player like many of us here. any kind of dumbing down of sh5 will be devastating! I think they should make this SIM just that a SIM .. I think most players((captains)) would adjust..
I HOPE I'm wrong and sh5 is gangbusters for us realizm guys and the dumbing down will not effect or interfere with realism... Think of what this Sim could be if they went for realism WOW I Think they would get even more buyers and followers of the silent hunter series
MERRY XMASS AM I JUST A WORRY WART?

Some of the sh3 down dumb features are unremoveable for realizm and allthough I do enjoy these sims to the fullest ,,Its an annoyance

1) It is a sim,
2) dumbing down will be 'optional'
3) Dan & co know exactly what they are doing
4) stop worrying.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by JU_88

1) It is a sim,
2) dumbing down will be 'optional'
3) Dan & co know exactly what they are doing
4) stop worrying.

[difool2]

Originally Posted by codmander

Fact 1... is I love the silient hunter series, but after reading that new sh5 interview I have concerns, being a realizm player like many of us here. any kind of dumbing down of sh5 will be devastating! I think they should make this SIM just that a SIM .. I think most players((captains)) would adjust..
I HOPE I'm wrong and sh5 is gangbusters for us realizm guys and the dumbing down will not effect or interfere with realism... Think of what this Sim could be if they went for realism WOW I Think they would get even more buyers and followers of the silent hunter series
MERRY XMASS AM I JUST A WORRY WART?

Since you haven't provided a single specific criticism in this post, nothing specific at all from the interview you alluded to, you tell me.

1) It is a sim,

It's a game that can simulate some limited aspects of submarine warfare in the Atlantic if the user so desires.

2) Dumbing down will be 'optional' for the most part -Im sure.

Don't bet the farm on this, watch and shoot.

3) Dan & co know exactly what they are doing, and they dont want to dissapoint us, believe me.

No doubt but ultimately game content is probably a marketing and not a developer call.

4) Should Worst come to worse, there will be patches & mods

Once again, watch and shoot, potential for modability is likely to be a management decision and patches more likely to be technical in nature rather than to add missing features. Don't be surprised to see any added content in "expansion modules" at a price.

5) Stop worrying.

When all is said and done SH5 is a computer game and life is far too short to actually worry about anything so trivial.

[elanaiba]

Originally Posted by Randomizer

No doubt but ultimately game content is probably a marketing and not a developer call.

Marketing is part of the team but you'd be surprised how much they know about the series and what and who took it so far.

They know how important the community is, trust me.

P.S. Generally speaking developers are not robots following orders.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Marketing is part of the team but you'd be surprised how much they know about the series and what and who took it so far.

They know how important the community is, trust me.

P.S. Generally speaking developers are not robots following orders.

Reassuring words. Thank you!

Hope you had a great Christmas.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Randomizer

When all is said and done SH5 is a computer game and life is far too short to actually worry about anything so trivial.

Exactly, I dont even see the point of this discussion tbh, what ever will be will be.
I refuse to scrutinize every shread of SHV preivew material under the microscope.
I will judge the game after I have played it for no less than a week.