The Tigers Lair

Admiral Von Gerlach · 11-06-09, 11:16 AM

I found this nice picture of the main sub base at Pearl as i was doing research, nice to see where the fleet took off from and came home to....

be nice if they used these for some really good detail in SHV

Rockin Robbins · 11-06-09, 12:28 PM

Somebody was, but it was one of those mods full of sound and fury, signifying nothing...

I don't think it's possible to appreciate how difficult such a mod is to make unless you try it. If I remember right, this guy got about halfway through. We're too hard on modders that tackle a huge project, find out they have swam halfway across the Atlantic and don't think they can make it. So they sometimes swim back!

I belong to the Ducimus school of eyecandy. If it doesn't help the game, a beautiful target you might see once in a career, if it slows down game execution, then eyecandy be damned!

But Pearl Harbor in that kind of detail wouldn't be useless eyecandy. It would set the mood for the entire game and be seen by everyone using it as a base every time they played. Can you imagine starting out a cruise in early 1942 in Pearl, surrounded by sunken hulks of formerly proud ships of the US Navy reminding you of why you were here? Pearl Harbor would be a priceless addition to SH4.

11-06-09, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admiral Von Gerlach

be nice if they used these for some really good detail in SHV

/agree

The land-based graphics in the SH series have always been pretty crude, hope they give those some more attention this time out.

Admiral Von Gerlach · 11-06-09, 12:50 PM

I agree RR, it is a LOT OF work to make it in a mod, which is why i was hoping the developers with their staff and budget could tackle it, it woulld really really enhance things so much. The immersion would be tremendous. True, a naval sim is mostly about being at sea, but the departure, and for the lucky ones, the return is such a special part of it all.

and we really should include this shot:

Torplexed · 11-06-09, 10:30 PM

I remember when SH4 was still in development a lot of people were hoping the December 7th attack itself would be included so you could try your hand at knocking down a few of those low flying Kates, Vals and Zeros with your AA guns when starting from Pearl as well as watching the attack unfold. Once we were told the game would start on December 8th everyone knew it wasn't to be.

WarlordATF · 11-06-09, 11:37 PM

Good Pics! This map shows what was moored where on the morning of the attack. The default game shows the wrecks of (I Believe) The California, The Oklahoma and The Arizona, Are there others i've missed?

Torplexed · 11-06-09, 11:48 PM

Pearl Harbor permanent wrecks should also include the target ship and former battleship Utah. (Although an unimportant target, due to her flat decks some Japanese pilots mistook her for a carrier) In addition, the battleship Nevada was run aground during her attempt to sortie during the attack and was beached near Hospital Point. However, she wasn't there long as she was refloated on February 12th 1942 and entered Pearl Harbor Navy Yard's new Drydock Number Two on February 18th.

Admiral Von Gerlach · 11-07-09, 12:50 AM

Those were the major wrecks and hulks you mention, Oklahoma was dockside and gutted slowly ditto Arizona, her conning tower was in the weeds for years on Ford Island, some scrap is still there. All of the BB's except for Arizona were eventually salved to some degree or another, except for Utah which was a gunnery target I believe. There is quite a good Pearl in one of the flight sims, i remember doing flight training over the harbour but dont remember for sure if it was Pacific Fighters or Heroes of the Pacific. They are working on a mod for CFS2 to do a decent Pearl but it is a very old engine and very little detail is possible. I think the SH series is our only real hope eventually of getting the complete Pearl.

Torplexed · 11-07-09, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admiral Von Gerlach

All of the BB's except for Arizona were eventually salved to some degree or another, except for Utah which was a gunnery target I believe.

A painful payback for the Japanese. Admiral Nagumo who commanded the Japanese carrier fleet during the raid, fell from grace after the Midway and Guadalcanal debacles and was eventually demoted to various unimportant posts before being given command of a small naval flotilla in the Marianas. During the US invasion of Saipan in 1944, he ruefully noted that many of the battleships his fleet had sunk in Pearl Harbor back in 1941, were now bombarding the island he was trapped on. He committed suicide a few days later.

Admiral Von Gerlach · 11-07-09, 05:10 AM

Indeed. It was a matter of Honour among the Navy of that time to restore the aging BB's even tho many realized the day of the big gun battleship was over.... they still served vital functions in the fleet, but were no longer the sole queens of the waves..the flat tops and the flat top based task force had replaced them. Still, I heard that there was no thought of not restoring the ships bombed and torpedoed at Pearl, and they all were except for the Arizona. It was an amazing shock to the Fleet to suffer the same fate of the Italian fleet at Taranto, even tho in the annual naval games many times the attack on "home base" fleets was seen, both in the table top battles at Annapolis and the Naval War College and the annual War Games or Fleet Problems at sea. I still can feel the deep shock that shook tne entire senior Naval establishment as i study or hear of those days, ...in some ways it broke open the deeply fossilized top command structure that was, in a way similar to the senior IJN fleet brass hats, still dominated in the early 40's by the Big Gun Big Fleet Naval ideal.

It was a rapid shift to a projection of force based on indiivudal pilots carrying relatively small weapons loads...but acting in concert and in sufficient numbers to sink any major fleet unit....and to the use of unrestricted submarine warfare that not even the IJN leaders would countenance until it was too late.

G2B · 11-08-09, 01:45 PM

Hers a couple more pics of the Nevada

G2B · 11-08-09, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admiral Von Gerlach

They are working on a mod for CFS2 to do a decent Pearl but it is a very old engine and very little detail is possible.

As far as CFS2, the engine is old and some of the difficulties are getting the ships to act properly They just don't want to roll over but with a few of mods the game itself is amazing.

Bubblehead1980 · 11-08-09, 03:27 PM

CFS II is my favorite flight sim, i used to play it quite a bit.I loved the realism of actually having to fly the plane, plus fight it, some intense dogfights.Yea the engine is old and ships and AI planes do not act correctly sometimes.I wish another PTO CFS would come out, with the improvements.Microsoft, get on it!

jazman · 11-08-09, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

CFS II is my favorite flight sim, i used to play it quite a bit.I loved the realism of actually having to fly the plane, plus fight it, some intense dogfights.Yea the engine is old and ships and AI planes do not act correctly sometimes.I wish another PTO CFS would come out, with the improvements.Microsoft, get on it!

Microsoft shut down the ACES team completely. There is nothing left. That includes Flight Simulator.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02...ator_partners/

G2B · 11-08-09, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazman

Microsoft shut down the ACES team completely. There is nothing left. That includes Flight Simulator.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02...ator_partners/

Twas a sad day when we got news of this. But we still have a very active cfs2 community still developing everythiing from planes ships and scenery. (shhhhhhh don't tell anyone but we also have jets

and helicopters

)

Enough bout cfs 2 this concept of Pearl sounds interesting. I wonder what it would take to rework the "eye candy"? The overall attack would be to much I think (never say never) but just the overall look on the 8th

11-06-09, 11:16 AM	#1
Admiral Von Gerlach Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Colorado and California Posts: 726 Downloads: 358 Uploads: 0	The Tigers Lair I found this nice picture of the main sub base at Pearl as i was doing research, nice to see where the fleet took off from and came home to.... be nice if they used these for some really good detail in SHV __________________ Erlaubnis an Bord zu kommen.

11-06-09, 12:28 PM	#2
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Somebody was, but it was one of those mods full of sound and fury, signifying nothing... I don't think it's possible to appreciate how difficult such a mod is to make unless you try it. If I remember right, this guy got about halfway through. We're too hard on modders that tackle a huge project, find out they have swam halfway across the Atlantic and don't think they can make it. So they sometimes swim back! I belong to the Ducimus school of eyecandy. If it doesn't help the game, a beautiful target you might see once in a career, if it slows down game execution, then eyecandy be damned! But Pearl Harbor in that kind of detail wouldn't be useless eyecandy. It would set the mood for the entire game and be seen by everyone using it as a base every time they played. Can you imagine starting out a cruise in early 1942 in Pearl, surrounded by sunken hulks of formerly proud ships of the US Navy reminding you of why you were here? Pearl Harbor would be a priceless addition to SH4. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

11-06-09, 12:50 PM	#4
Admiral Von Gerlach Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Colorado and California Posts: 726 Downloads: 358 Uploads: 0	I agree RR, it is a LOT OF work to make it in a mod, which is why i was hoping the developers with their staff and budget could tackle it, it woulld really really enhance things so much. The immersion would be tremendous. True, a naval sim is mostly about being at sea, but the departure, and for the lucky ones, the return is such a special part of it all. and we really should include this shot: __________________ Erlaubnis an Bord zu kommen. Last edited by Admiral Von Gerlach; 11-06-09 at 01:59 PM.

11-06-09, 11:37 PM	#6
WarlordATF Frogman Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: SW Florida Posts: 288 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	Good Pics! This map shows what was moored where on the morning of the attack. The default game shows the wrecks of (I Believe) The California, The Oklahoma and The Arizona, Are there others i've missed? Last edited by WarlordATF; 11-06-09 at 11:48 PM.

11-07-09, 12:50 AM	#8
Admiral Von Gerlach Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Colorado and California Posts: 726 Downloads: 358 Uploads: 0	Those were the major wrecks and hulks you mention, Oklahoma was dockside and gutted slowly ditto Arizona, her conning tower was in the weeds for years on Ford Island, some scrap is still there. All of the BB's except for Arizona were eventually salved to some degree or another, except for Utah which was a gunnery target I believe. There is quite a good Pearl in one of the flight sims, i remember doing flight training over the harbour but dont remember for sure if it was Pacific Fighters or Heroes of the Pacific. They are working on a mod for CFS2 to do a decent Pearl but it is a very old engine and very little detail is possible. I think the SH series is our only real hope eventually of getting the complete Pearl. __________________ Erlaubnis an Bord zu kommen.

11-06-09, 10:30 PM	#5
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	I remember when SH4 was still in development a lot of people were hoping the December 7th attack itself would be included so you could try your hand at knocking down a few of those low flying Kates, Vals and Zeros with your AA guns when starting from Pearl as well as watching the attack unfold. Once we were told the game would start on December 8th everyone knew it wasn't to be.

11-06-09, 11:48 PM	#7
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Pearl Harbor permanent wrecks should also include the target ship and former battleship Utah. (Although an unimportant target, due to her flat decks some Japanese pilots mistook her for a carrier) In addition, the battleship Nevada was run aground during her attempt to sortie during the attack and was beached near Hospital Point. However, she wasn't there long as she was refloated on February 12th 1942 and entered Pearl Harbor Navy Yard's new Drydock Number Two on February 18th.

11-07-09, 05:10 AM	#10
Admiral Von Gerlach Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Colorado and California Posts: 726 Downloads: 358 Uploads: 0	Indeed. It was a matter of Honour among the Navy of that time to restore the aging BB's even tho many realized the day of the big gun battleship was over.... they still served vital functions in the fleet, but were no longer the sole queens of the waves..the flat tops and the flat top based task force had replaced them. Still, I heard that there was no thought of not restoring the ships bombed and torpedoed at Pearl, and they all were except for the Arizona. It was an amazing shock to the Fleet to suffer the same fate of the Italian fleet at Taranto, even tho in the annual naval games many times the attack on "home base" fleets was seen, both in the table top battles at Annapolis and the Naval War College and the annual War Games or Fleet Problems at sea. I still can feel the deep shock that shook tne entire senior Naval establishment as i study or hear of those days, ...in some ways it broke open the deeply fossilized top command structure that was, in a way similar to the senior IJN fleet brass hats, still dominated in the early 40's by the Big Gun Big Fleet Naval ideal. It was a rapid shift to a projection of force based on indiivudal pilots carrying relatively small weapons loads...but acting in concert and in sufficient numbers to sink any major fleet unit....and to the use of unrestricted submarine warfare that not even the IJN leaders would countenance until it was too late. __________________ Erlaubnis an Bord zu kommen.

11-08-09, 01:45 PM	#11
G2B XO Join Date: May 2009 Location: Guam, I think Posts: 420 Downloads: 80 Uploads: 0	Hers a couple more pics of the Nevada __________________

11-08-09, 03:27 PM	#13
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,105 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	re CFS II is my favorite flight sim, i used to play it quite a bit.I loved the realism of actually having to fly the plane, plus fight it, some intense dogfights.Yea the engine is old and ships and AI planes do not act correctly sometimes.I wish another PTO CFS would come out, with the improvements.Microsoft, get on it!