a morale question, sink or not to sink

czwij · 10-26-09, 09:11 AM

Captains log,

Stardate 902…… oops! Wrong ship, err, boat.

February 25, 1942,

Patrolling grid ED 98, (here would be exact coords, but i forgot to record these) N of Port of Spain
Gale force winds, 15m/sec, heavy fog, heavy precipitation
Local time is 20.30
Hydrophones picked up a slow screws SE, maneuvered to engage
Surfaced at 20.52 in heavy storm for spotting of potential merchant vessel
Almost immediately, 1st WO Carlewitz spots a small coastal ship 245o to port, short range, possibly about 350-400m, difficult to tell in weather conditions.
Hard rudder port.
20.56 We engage the vessel, angle on bow unknown. 1st WO locked on target, but blind to position on bow
Torpedo fire! (Impact detonator)
24 seconds; detonation.
Target neutralized and fire at stern, ship is now visible, due to fire, in heavy rain.
Merchant vessel approached, 345m 90o off starboard bow.
The ship is tossing in heavy seas out of control, apparently the torpedo knocked out rudder and screw. She doesn’t appear to be sinking

What would you do?

Leave her be (measly 2000t) and leave the crew to fate in the stormy seas

Or

Sink her, insuring that all aboard will certainly perish in their lifeboats (my boat, U 123, XIB being thrown about like a child’s toy)

I must state that the merchant is armed.

So, what would you do?

Regards,

Erich Von Muller

Hitman · 10-26-09, 09:37 AM

Quote:

I must state that the merchant is armed.

An armed merchant is fair game, wether in storm conditions or not. By installing a gun on it, even for supposed self-defence, it becomes a warship and as such, no mercy is expected and the prize rules do not apply. All of those embarked know it.

I say sink it

U2222 · 10-26-09, 10:48 AM

You've already used one torpedo on the measly 2000 tonner

.
Two is extravagant

.
Save them for the laden tankers if you want to hurt Tommy's war effort

Zilch · 10-26-09, 11:44 AM

I can't stand leaving things half sunk. I'd put another fish into it to ensure that the weather doesn't claim the kill you earned. If it's worth one fish, it's usually worth two, says me.

In reality, maybe I'd let them go. But then again, it's war. Who knows? For your purposes, though, since nobody's going to die either way...send it to the bottom. The reason those ships exist, in game, is for you to blow them up. Use your tools so they can fulfill their long, plummeting destiny.

Besides, you might regret not having sunk it if you can't find any other targets this patrol.

Oh yeah...BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!

Platapus · 10-26-09, 06:24 PM

You could just wait a bit more. I torpedoed a medium cargo with one eel (out of four) in very rough seas. At first it did not seem to have much effect, but I just followed it for a bit while reloading the tubes.

It took a while but in that rough of a sea, any damage is bound to sink a ship.

But morally, I agree with the other posters. An Armed Merchant is combatant vessel.

Mopy · 10-26-09, 06:40 PM

I'm with Platapus. Tail it submerged and wait for it to flood. Morally, well you put a torpedo into it already without attempting to identify it. Could have been axis or a hospital ship

So I think you answered your own question about the morality.

czwij · 10-27-09, 02:48 AM

Mopy, that ,i didn't even think of. wow.

Mopy · 10-27-09, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by czwij

Mopy, that ,i didn't even think of. wow.

Heheh it's rare, but does happen with the odd unfortunately placed friendly or neutral.

Still, congrats for hitting something in impossible weather!

That's always a buzz.

czwij · 10-27-09, 04:42 AM

come think of it, in the carribean i wouldn't expect to meet a friendly or a hospital ship, so it couldn't be anything else but an unfriendly. or could it?

Mopy · 10-27-09, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by czwij

come think of it, in the carribean i wouldn't expect to meet a friendly or a hospital ship, so it couldn't be anything else but an unfriendly. or could it?

You have a good point. Also you said it was coastal, so unless someone invented a secret coastal hospital ship, that's out. Friendlies unlikely in the area, I suppose the only other possibility is a neutral - in which case, it wouldn't be travelling lights out I don't think.

Good call

Lt.Fillipidis · 10-27-09, 11:29 AM

Well, since its about morality, i'd let it be in real life.
Its a small ship that wont have much of an effect to the war unless it carries something important. And thats kinda unlikely.
IRL it doesnt worth killing about 15-30 sailors for such a small vessel.
And besides them, there are their families too.

czwij · 10-28-09, 04:39 AM

im getting waaaaay to involved in this game. i sunk a ship off of labrador, stopped engines waited for a half hour and proceeded to the coast. why? dropping off the survivors, of course.

btw way, the ship in the storm? fired on me, so guess what then happened?

set to impact, 4m depth
BOOM!

downloaded thomsens sounds. my god, what immersion!!!

JScones · 10-28-09, 05:17 AM

Leave her be. There are better things to waste torpedoes on.

10-30-09, 06:11 PM

You did right.
He wasn't a friendly. He was armed.

The Uboat Commander's Handbook makes it clear that one should not let targets pass in hopes of bagging something Bigger.

Apprxomate quote: You've got what you've got.

And, yes, 2.000 tonnes is worth a torpedo, or 2 if neccesary.
It's not 1940 anymore.

Also from the handbook:
Use 2, 3, 4 topedoes. Whatever is neccesary.
It's better to destroy a-little, than damage a-lot.

10-26-09, 09:11 AM	#1
czwij Watch Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 23 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	a morale question, sink or not to sink Captains log, Stardate 902…… oops! Wrong ship, err, boat. February 25, 1942, Patrolling grid ED 98, (here would be exact coords, but i forgot to record these) N of Port of Spain Gale force winds, 15m/sec, heavy fog, heavy precipitation Local time is 20.30 Hydrophones picked up a slow screws SE, maneuvered to engage Surfaced at 20.52 in heavy storm for spotting of potential merchant vessel Almost immediately, 1st WO Carlewitz spots a small coastal ship 245o to port, short range, possibly about 350-400m, difficult to tell in weather conditions. Hard rudder port. 20.56 We engage the vessel, angle on bow unknown. 1st WO locked on target, but blind to position on bow Torpedo fire! (Impact detonator) 24 seconds; detonation. Target neutralized and fire at stern, ship is now visible, due to fire, in heavy rain. Merchant vessel approached, 345m 90o off starboard bow. The ship is tossing in heavy seas out of control, apparently the torpedo knocked out rudder and screw. She doesn’t appear to be sinking What would you do? Leave her be (measly 2000t) and leave the crew to fate in the stormy seas Or Sink her, insuring that all aboard will certainly perish in their lifeboats (my boat, U 123, XIB being thrown about like a child’s toy) I must state that the merchant is armed. So, what would you do? Regards, Erich Von Muller

10-26-09, 10:48 AM	#3
U2222 Sparky Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: High Peak, UK Posts: 156 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	You've already used one torpedo on the measly 2000 tonner. Two is extravagant. Save them for the laden tankers if you want to hurt Tommy's war effort __________________ A Big Thank You To All The Modders Who Make Sub Simming Such A Deep Experience

10-26-09, 11:44 AM	#4
Zilch Torpedoman Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 118 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	I can't stand leaving things half sunk. I'd put another fish into it to ensure that the weather doesn't claim the kill you earned. If it's worth one fish, it's usually worth two, says me. In reality, maybe I'd let them go. But then again, it's war. Who knows? For your purposes, though, since nobody's going to die either way...send it to the bottom. The reason those ships exist, in game, is for you to blow them up. Use your tools so they can fulfill their long, plummeting destiny. Besides, you might regret not having sunk it if you can't find any other targets this patrol. Oh yeah...BE MORE AGGRESSIVE! __________________ Depth charges pounding your flanges loose? Hedgehogs dislodging your precious bulkheads? Use Beemans Gum! Freshens breath and doubles as an adhesive in a pinch. The gum of choice aboard U-54!

10-26-09, 06:24 PM	#5
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,361 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	You could just wait a bit more. I torpedoed a medium cargo with one eel (out of four) in very rough seas. At first it did not seem to have much effect, but I just followed it for a bit while reloading the tubes. It took a while but in that rough of a sea, any damage is bound to sink a ship. But morally, I agree with the other posters. An Armed Merchant is combatant vessel. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

10-26-09, 06:40 PM	#6
Mopy Torpedoman Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 118 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I'm with Platapus. Tail it submerged and wait for it to flood. Morally, well you put a torpedo into it already without attempting to identify it. Could have been axis or a hospital ship So I think you answered your own question about the morality.

10-27-09, 02:48 AM	#7
czwij Watch Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 23 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Mopy, that ,i didn't even think of. wow.

10-27-09, 04:42 AM	#9
czwij Watch Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 23 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	come think of it, in the carribean i wouldn't expect to meet a friendly or a hospital ship, so it couldn't be anything else but an unfriendly. or could it?

10-27-09, 11:29 AM	#11
Lt.Fillipidis Weps Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Veria, Greece Posts: 365 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Well, since its about morality, i'd let it be in real life. Its a small ship that wont have much of an effect to the war unless it carries something important. And thats kinda unlikely. IRL it doesnt worth killing about 15-30 sailors for such a small vessel. And besides them, there are their families too.

10-28-09, 04:39 AM	#12
czwij Watch Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 23 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	im getting waaaaay to involved in this game. i sunk a ship off of labrador, stopped engines waited for a half hour and proceeded to the coast. why? dropping off the survivors, of course. btw way, the ship in the storm? fired on me, so guess what then happened? set to impact, 4m depth BOOM! downloaded thomsens sounds. my god, what immersion!!!

10-28-09, 05:17 AM	#13
JScones Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 5,501 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Leave her be. There are better things to waste torpedoes on.

10-30-09, 06:11 PM	#14
Snestorm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	You did right. He wasn't a friendly. He was armed. The Uboat Commander's Handbook makes it clear that one should not let targets pass in hopes of bagging something Bigger. Apprxomate quote: You've got what you've got. And, yes, 2.000 tonnes is worth a torpedo, or 2 if neccesary. It's not 1940 anymore. Also from the handbook: Use 2, 3, 4 topedoes. Whatever is neccesary. It's better to destroy a-little, than damage a-lot.