In Border States, BATFE Asks: "May We See Your Guns?"

[SUBMAN1]

Nice.

-S

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=4990

Friday, June 19, 2009 NRA-ILA has recently received several calls from NRA members in border states who have been visited or called by agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. In some cases, agents have asked to enter these people's homes, and requested serial numbers of all firearms the members possess.

In each case, the agents were making inquiries based on the number of firearms these NRA members had recently bought, and in some cases the agents said they were asking because the members had bought types of guns that are frequently recovered in Mexico.

This kind of questioning may or may not be part of a legitimate criminal investigation. For example, when BATFE traces a gun seized after use in a crime, manufacturers' and dealers' records will normally lead to the first retail buyer of that gun, and investigators will have to interview the buyer to find out how the gun ended up in criminal hands. But in other cases, the questioning may simply be based on information in dealers' records, with agents trying to "profile" potentially suspicious purchases.

On the other hand, some of the agents have used heavy-handed tactics. One reportedly demanded that a gun owner return home early from a business trip, while another threatened to "report" an NRA member as "refusing to cooperate." That kind of behavior is outrageous and unprofessional.

Whether agents act appropriately or not, concerned gun owners should remember that all constitutional protections apply. Answering questions in this type of investigation is generally an individual choice. Most importantly, there are only a few relatively rare exceptions to the general Fourth Amendment requirement that law enforcement officials need a warrant to enter a home without the residents' consent. There is nothing wrong with politely, but firmly, asserting your rights.

If BATFE contacts you and you have any question about how to respond, you may want to consult a local attorney. NRA members may also call NRA-ILA's Office of Legislative Counsel at (703) 267-1161 for further information. Whether contacting a local attorney or NRA, be sure to provide as many details as possible, including the date, time, and location, agent's name, and specific questions asked.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

What's the problem here? What exactly is so horrid about knowing who's got what?

[Sailor Steve]

Because the theory of the American system is that the government, and you, have no right to know anything about me except what I want you too. We have a census every ten years, and these days the forms are so complex and intrusive that I never answer any questions except the one required by the Constitution: "How many people live in your residence?" Everything else is specifically denied the government.

@ Subman1: I apologize, a little. That is one part of the Constitution that does indeed directly affect me, which means that that one part is for me "the law of the land".

[Kapitan_Phillips]

My point is, they specified border states, where I would think there would be illegal weapon smuggling. I understand your value of privacy, but where guns are concerned, I think its important to know where things are. That way, if one is stolen, it can be tracked and returned to you.

I think you're over-reacting just a little bit, to be honest. Over here, if you wish to own a shotgun or hunting rifle, the police keep a record of what you've got, and make a check in your home to ensure that you have the correct facilities to ensure that the weapon is stored safely and securely.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

My point is, they specified border states, where I would think there would be illegal weapon smuggling. I understand your value of privacy, but where guns are concerned, I think its important to know where things are. That way, if one is stolen, it can be tracked and returned to you.

I think you're over-reacting just a little bit, to be honest. Over here, if you wish to own a shotgun or hunting rifle, the police keep a record of what you've got, and make a check in your home to ensure that you have the correct facilities to ensure that the weapon is stored safely and securely.

This is why it is important for the owner to inventory his firearms, record types of firearms and associated serial numbers. - if a firearm goes missing he can then provide the authorities with the information

once compiled this list should be copied in triplicate, one copy palced in a fireproof - waterproof case, one copy placed in a bank safe deposit box, and the third copy placed off premisis at a safe, reliable third location of your choosing.

when i was 12 years old, my father and I went through all 130 firearms in our home, compiled a list of types and serial numbers for the firearms, along with serial numbers (or descriptions if SNs unavailable) of each accessory (scope, sheath, bayonet, bi-pod, holster etc.)

a responsible gun owner will do this - and revise the list whenever new firearms are added to the collection.

i consider a purpose built combination safe to be a reliable and appropriate place to store firarms of virtually any size or caliber. the police or the ATF or FBI dont need to know JACK about what i have.

the revolutionary war was a long time ago, but in many american minds - it wasnt THAT long ago.

the reason the government doesnt need to know what i have in my home is because the government might be the very oppressive entity i may one day have to fight against... my firearms are not just for criminals. it happened once in america - and no matter how far out it might sound... it could happen again.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

This is why it is important for the owner to inventory his firearms, record types of firearms and associated serial numbers. - if a firearm goes missing he can then provide the authorities with the information

Ah-kay, point taken.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

Over here, if you wish to own a shotgun or hunting rifle, the police keep a record of what you've got, and make a check in your home to ensure that you have the correct facilities to ensure that the weapon is stored safely and securely.

And that's part of the reason why we're not "over here" anymore. Literally.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And that's part of the reason why we're not "over here" anymore. Literally.

agreed

[GoldenRivet]

"Mr. Goldenrivet, May we see your guns?"

"If you produce a warrant, otherwise... f*ck off and have a nice day."

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

What's the problem here? What exactly is so horrid about knowing who's got what?

Privacy is enormously valued in the United States... Uncle Sam needs to keep to himself.