active light houses in wartime?

She-Wolf · 10-05-07, 03:56 AM

hello y'all. This is a bit of idle speculation because best beloved ( who is a retired electrical engineer wot used to do radar and sonar stuff, so got to go on warships etc) made a comment when I told him that I was passing north of Lerwick, and saw a light, which turned out to be a light-house beacon. He queried that, suggesting that there would not have been any UK light-houses shining out during the war years. What say you?
ps. I have just completed my first successful patrol, out of about six that went wrong for one reason or another (sighs happily). I am ready for my medal now... just watch where you pin it!):rotfl:

GoDeep · 10-05-07, 04:23 AM

Actually, I was wondering about that as well. On the one hand, it would be strange to have the lighthouses lit up, making it easy for U-boats to spot your harbors and navigate by. But on the other hand, you'd probably want your welcome guests (merchants, warships) to be able to find their way easily.

I don't know if the the British kept their lighthouses operational during the war, but with the risk of overflying enemy bombers, enemy U-boats and stuff, I would find it odd.

The US had an incredibly relaxed attitude until operation Paukenschlag (Drumbeat). They had the entire coastline lit up, no blackout whatsoever. That changed when the U-boats started wreaking havoc, of course. Maybe the British didn't resort to lighthouse blackouts until later in the war?

Does anyone know for sure?

Venatore · 10-05-07, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by She-Wolf

best beloved made a comment when I told him that I was passing north of Lerwick, and saw a light, which turned out to be a light-house beacon. He queried that, suggesting that there would not have been any UK light-houses shining out during the war years. I am ready for my medal now... just watch where you pin it!):rotfl:

Good point, and I'm not talking about where to pin you medal. :hmm:

3Jane · 10-05-07, 05:14 AM

'Trinity House' would be the people to ask about lighthouse operation.

She-Wolf · 10-05-07, 05:30 AM

Venatore - went to your site - wow, atmospheric music and lots of action - are all those shots from SH3? I shall go back for another look later.

3Jane, I might just do a search on the net for such info

Venatore · 10-05-07, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by She-Wolf

Venatore - went to your site

That site solely belongs to my mate JCWolf. He built it from scratch. I just store my mod there, keep them in one area. I better amend my sig so theres not confusion about the owner of the site.

She-Wolf · 10-05-07, 05:44 AM

Venatore - my fault, I clicked on the link without reading the LARGE GREEN writing!! Nothing wrong with your sig.

3Jane, good suggestion; here is what I found.

During the First and Second World Wars Trinity House's lights remained off, but they were occasionally relit for the use of Allied shipping and fleet movements.

Wartime risk

Turning off the lights in wartime was a risky business. On 28 October 1915,HMS Argyll was wrecked on the Bell Rock.

Bell Rock lighthouse during a storm from the north east. © NMM

The Bell Rock light had been turned off as wartime custom demanded. But the light had been requested to be turned back on for the Argyll. Due to some hitch it was not put on until it was too late.

Brag · 10-05-07, 05:55 AM

Actually, at least, some of the lighthouses remained operational during the war. I'm not sure if they did go off at certain times like with the approach of an air raid. The lighthouses were of more use to British shipping than Kriegsmarine units. Elcos and Schnellboats used bouys and other aids to navigation as ambush points against each other.

Captain Nemo · 10-05-07, 06:08 AM

I also found a site that says "a great number of lighthouses were demolished during the 1939-45 war as it was considered that they might act as a navigational aid to enemy shipping and aircraft". This would imply that generally speaking they were turned off.

Nemo

She-Wolf · 10-05-07, 06:12 AM

Ahh, guten morgen Herr Brag. Just when I think I have the definitive answer, you come along and muddy the waters again! Pshaw!! What?

Still, I can comfort myself with the thought that the Lerwick one was one of those that did remain on active duty, so do not have to castigate SH3 for showing it to be so.

And now Cap'n Nemo's discovery turns the possibility back again.... hmm.

Any more I wonder?

Captain Nemo · 10-05-07, 06:43 AM

Another snippet of info "during wartime lighthouses were normally darkened and used only in special circumstances as when convoys or 'friendly' ships were expected". Which seems to support Brag's post.

Nemo

andylegate · 10-05-07, 06:44 AM

It would seem to me that the lighthouses would be more of an aid to the Luftewaffe than to the Kiegsmarine, in that in a u-boat, your line of site visability is going to be limited to the curvature of the Earth. And that getting THAT close to an enemy coast line, you're going to do so submerged (unless you have a death wish).

Good charts and a decent navigator, and staying many miles away from the coast lines should negate the need for a navigational help like lighthouses. To me, that would only be a partial aid in verifying where you are.

As a u-boat commander, I'll stay well away from the coast line thank you, and stick to waiting for merchant shipping in the sea lanes coming from and going to the ports.

Unless I get bored and feel like a port raid. (this is normally when my crew starts to panic and mutter about mutany, until Benard get's them all together for yoga to calm their nerves!) :rotfl:

She-Wolf · 10-05-07, 07:48 AM

hmm, makes sense. I think Mr Brag and Nemo have it as it probably was. Sort of compromise. Turned off except when needed. Yeah.

bigboywooly · 10-05-07, 08:32 AM

Interesting thread
I did wonder when I placed the lightships whether they would all have been darkened in wartime but seemed not so

Lightship Spurn - 1939-1945 during Second World War the lightship was moved to the Middle Humber position, marking the boom across the river

http://www.feuerschiffseite.de/SCHIF...V12/lv12gb.htm

Lightvessel No94 - 1939-1980 Shipwash and Morecombe Bay station

http://www.feuerschiffseite.de/SCHIF...V94/lv94gb.htm

Petrel - 30.08.40-11.08.45 Station South Rock

http://www.feuerschiffseite.de/SCHIF...l/petrelgb.htm

Brenton Reef - 1935-1962: LV-102 / WAL-525

Columbia River - 1939-1951: LV-93 / WAL-517

Handkerchief Shoal - 1930-1951: LV-98 / WAL-521

( WAL-521 - (1942-1945 During WWII, remained on Handkerchief station; no armament provided) - http://www.uscglightshipsailors.org/..._98_wal521.htm )

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/...ion_Index.html

So there were lightships still alight for navigation purposes
I imagine similar with lighthouses

Quote:

The blackout?
Agnes: In the late afternoon when it was still light, you had to pull you curtains closed. They were made from special heavy blackout material. There was no point in doing the blackout where I lived, because we were on the coast, and there was a huge lighthouse on the cliff that would light up the whole town every two minutes, showing us to the enemy. The lighthouse was never turned off because the incoming boats needed it to see. We still had to do the blackout though, because it was the law.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/s...a4264427.shtml

She-Wolf · 10-05-07, 08:59 AM

well... there ya go.. despite Trinity saying 'their' light-houses would be turned off, clearly that rule was not applied consistently. Needs must I guess. Thankyou BBW

10-05-07, 03:56 AM	#1
She-Wolf Watchdog Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 971 Downloads: 152 Uploads: 0	active light houses in wartime? hello y'all. This is a bit of idle speculation because best beloved ( who is a retired electrical engineer wot used to do radar and sonar stuff, so got to go on warships etc) made a comment when I told him that I was passing north of Lerwick, and saw a light, which turned out to be a light-house beacon. He queried that, suggesting that there would not have been any UK light-houses shining out during the war years. What say you? ps. I have just completed my first successful patrol, out of about six that went wrong for one reason or another (sighs happily). I am ready for my medal now... just watch where you pin it!):rotfl: __________________

10-05-07, 05:14 AM	#4
3Jane Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: York. Northern England. Posts: 1,004 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	'Trinity House' would be the people to ask about lighthouse operation. __________________ Fate opposes me in vitality and morality, forced ever onward, burdened, always in shackles. So this very moment, without tarrying, pluck the quivering strings. Because fate punishes the one who plays, all lament with me. (http://hosted.filefront.com/KatherineRowan)

10-05-07, 05:30 AM	#5
She-Wolf Watchdog Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 971 Downloads: 152 Uploads: 0	Venatore - went to your site - wow, atmospheric music and lots of action - are all those shots from SH3? I shall go back for another look later. 3Jane, I might just do a search on the net for such info __________________

10-05-07, 05:44 AM	#7
She-Wolf Watchdog Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 971 Downloads: 152 Uploads: 0	Venatore - my fault, I clicked on the link without reading the LARGE GREEN writing!! Nothing wrong with your sig. 3Jane, good suggestion; here is what I found. During the First and Second World Wars Trinity House's lights remained off, but they were occasionally relit for the use of Allied shipping and fleet movements. Wartime risk *Turning off the lights in wartime was a risky business. On 28 October 1915,HMS Argyll* was wrecked on the Bell Rock.** Bell Rock lighthouse during a storm from the north east. © NMM *The Bell Rock light had been turned off as wartime custom demanded. But the light had been requested to be turned back on for the Argyll.* Due to some hitch it was not put on until it was too late.** __________________

10-05-07, 05:55 AM	#8
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Actually, at least, some of the lighthouses remained operational during the war. I'm not sure if they did go off at certain times like with the approach of an air raid. The lighthouses were of more use to British shipping than Kriegsmarine units. Elcos and Schnellboats used bouys and other aids to navigation as ambush points against each other. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

10-05-07, 04:23 AM	#2
GoDeep Planesman Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Actually, I was wondering about that as well. On the one hand, it would be strange to have the lighthouses lit up, making it easy for U-boats to spot your harbors and navigate by. But on the other hand, you'd probably want your welcome guests (merchants, warships) to be able to find their way easily. I don't know if the the British kept their lighthouses operational during the war, but with the risk of overflying enemy bombers, enemy U-boats and stuff, I would find it odd. The US had an incredibly relaxed attitude until operation Paukenschlag (Drumbeat). They had the entire coastline lit up, no blackout whatsoever. That changed when the U-boats started wreaking havoc, of course. Maybe the British didn't resort to lighthouse blackouts until later in the war? Does anyone know for sure?

10-05-07, 06:08 AM	#9
Captain Nemo Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London, England Posts: 1,144 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	I also found a site that says "a great number of lighthouses were demolished during the 1939-45 war as it was considered that they might act as a navigational aid to enemy shipping and aircraft". This would imply that generally speaking they were turned off. Nemo __________________ "I'm afraid there is no disguising the fact that King's obsession with the Pacific and the Battle of Washington cost us dear in the Battle of the Atlantic". Sir John Slessor GCB, DSO, MC, DL AOC-in-C Coastal Command RAF ___________________________________________

10-05-07, 06:12 AM	#10
She-Wolf Watchdog Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 971 Downloads: 152 Uploads: 0	Ahh, guten morgen Herr Brag. Just when I think I have the definitive answer, you come along and muddy the waters again! Pshaw!! What? Still, I can comfort myself with the thought that the Lerwick one was one of those that did remain on active duty, so do not have to castigate SH3 for showing it to be so. And now Cap'n Nemo's discovery turns the possibility back again.... hmm. Any more I wonder? __________________

10-05-07, 06:43 AM	#11
Captain Nemo Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London, England Posts: 1,144 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	Another snippet of info "during wartime lighthouses were normally darkened and used only in special circumstances as when convoys or 'friendly' ships were expected". Which seems to support Brag's post. Nemo __________________ "I'm afraid there is no disguising the fact that King's obsession with the Pacific and the Battle of Washington cost us dear in the Battle of the Atlantic". Sir John Slessor GCB, DSO, MC, DL AOC-in-C Coastal Command RAF ___________________________________________

10-05-07, 06:44 AM	#12
andylegate Medic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: SC, USA Posts: 168 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	It would seem to me that the lighthouses would be more of an aid to the Luftewaffe than to the Kiegsmarine, in that in a u-boat, your line of site visability is going to be limited to the curvature of the Earth. And that getting THAT close to an enemy coast line, you're going to do so submerged (unless you have a death wish). Good charts and a decent navigator, and staying many miles away from the coast lines should negate the need for a navigational help like lighthouses. To me, that would only be a partial aid in verifying where you are. As a u-boat commander, I'll stay well away from the coast line thank you, and stick to waiting for merchant shipping in the sea lanes coming from and going to the ports. Unless I get bored and feel like a port raid. (this is normally when my crew starts to panic and mutter about mutany, until Benard get's them all together for yoga to calm their nerves!) :rotfl: __________________ My Real Life Navy Brag Page Below http://www1.freewebs.com/andylegate/

10-05-07, 07:48 AM	#13
She-Wolf Watchdog Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 971 Downloads: 152 Uploads: 0	hmm, makes sense. I think Mr Brag and Nemo have it as it probably was. Sort of compromise. Turned off except when needed. Yeah. __________________

10-05-07, 08:59 AM	#15
She-Wolf Watchdog Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 971 Downloads: 152 Uploads: 0	well... there ya go.. despite Trinity saying 'their' light-houses would be turned off, clearly that rule was not applied consistently. Needs must I guess. Thankyou BBW __________________