Blue on blue incident in Afghanistan

The Avon Lady · 08-24-07, 06:45 AM

U.S. bomb kills British soldiers in Afghanistan

Happy Times · 08-24-07, 07:59 AM

RIP

bradclark1 · 08-24-07, 08:43 AM

Bad news. Usually friendlies calling in CAS mark their position so just this kind of incident doesn't happen. Why didn't the pilot confirm positions? Unless the pilot just totally flubbed the bomb run. The news report really doesn't say anything. I guess more information will come out later.

Tchocky · 08-24-07, 08:44 AM

Ah, that's horrible.

bigboywooly · 08-24-07, 08:57 AM

Bad enough them dying over there in the first place but by friendly fire

I suppose all the facts wont be known till after the investigation
If ever

If anything like the last blue on blue there will be no repercussions for the pilots

Perhaps that needs to change to wake them up a bit

Dmitry Markov · 08-24-07, 09:01 AM

RIP

STEED · 08-24-07, 09:05 AM

Are those who make these mistakes learning from them?

R.I.P

PS: I am not having a pop at America just wondering that's all.

Dowly · 08-24-07, 09:10 AM

RIP

SUBMAN1 · 08-24-07, 09:40 AM

Not again! Maybe our pilots are getting tired, and maybe the Brits should pick up their slack for a bit? What the ratio of American sorties vs UK? I'm guessing 50 to 100 to 1, so there is probably 100 times more likelyhood that this will happen to the US instead of the Brits, but why do we always keep hitting the Brits when it happens??!!! Uggh!

-S

bradclark1 · 08-24-07, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Not again! Maybe our pilots are getting tired, and maybe the Brits should pick up their slack for a bit? What the ratio of American sorties vs UK? I'm guessing 50 to 100 to 1, so there is probably 100 times more likelyhood that this will happen to the US instead of the Brits, but why do we always keep hitting the Brits when it happens??!!! Uggh!

-S

What's the ratio of aircraft? It doen't matter, but it's no use speculating until they come out with more information.

fatty · 08-24-07, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Maybe our pilots are getting tired, and maybe the Brits should pick up their slack for a bit?

Coming up to our sixth year there, I think everyone is getting tired.

JALU3 · 08-24-07, 10:46 AM

My prayers and condolences to the families of the servicemembers that died that day, and all others since. However, this isn't the first time this has happened, to both US and Coalition servicemembers . . . and this wont be the last. They pilot, the forward air controller, and the individual giving the bomb coordinates all share the blame, and I am sure that they are not happy with their actions . . . and will be reprimanded for their actions . . . but chances are coordinates were given, someone along the chain of information gave the coordinates of the coalition forces as the target, rather then as information for the pilot to be careful for . . . and thus the event which occured.

Regardless of whether it was a coalition or a US aircraft which made the bomb run, doesn't matter, in the end someone made a mistake, and will have to live the rest of their lives with that regret, and probably sometime of that life at a Brig or at Fort Levenworth.

This is why it's important to have slow moving, heavily armored CAS designed aircraft to do these type of missions rather then high speed, lightly armored fast movers . . . gives more time for the pilots to have eyes on the ground to assess the situation . . . to provide the support . . . and to more accuratly put the munitions on the target. And an F-16 is not a slow moving, CAS designed aircraft, by any stretch of the information.
Furthermore, the end of the A-10 era will, if steps are not taken now, will remove a valuable CAS/COIN asset from the commanders on the ground. Unless Armed Helicopters take up that role, I dare say more events like this will occur at a higher rate then experienced now.
Thus, bring back aircraft with the same mission specifications as the OV-10 . . . and continue the service life of the A-10 . . . speed doesn't always mean life . . . sometimes taking your time, means saving a life below you.

SUBMAN1 · 08-24-07, 11:17 AM

I agree - keep the old hog around. Fast movers have their place for heavily fortified areas - get in get out fast, but for CAS, how do you beat the A-10? It can take a hit from a SAM and still fly home as it proved a couple times in Bosnia - the plane may be a total loss, but the pilot goes home.

I'll see if I can find an article on it, since the two on this page are out of date:
http://www.a-10.org/a10-news.html

I had to include this - Here is an example of indirect fire kill over Bosnia!:

Quote:

07.04 - 02:00 - Podgorica
French Mirage 2000. Missile missed but pilot ejected anyway.

fatty · 08-24-07, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JALU3

This is why it's important to have slow moving, heavily armored CAS designed aircraft to do these type of missions rather then high speed, lightly armored fast movers . . . gives more time for the pilots to have eyes on the ground to assess the situation . . . to provide the support . . . and to more accuratly put the munitions on the target. And an F-16 is not a slow moving, CAS designed aircraft, by any stretch of the information.
Furthermore, the end of the A-10 era will, if steps are not taken now, will remove a valuable CAS/COIN asset from the commanders on the ground. Unless Armed Helicopters take up that role, I dare say more events like this will occur at a higher rate then experienced now.
Thus, bring back aircraft with the same mission specifications as the OV-10 . . . and continue the service life of the A-10 . . . speed doesn't always mean life . . . sometimes taking your time, means saving a life below you.

I see your point but in practice the results have been the same; a USAF A-10 obliterated a few of our boys last year with its cannon. Perhaps the new A-10C with all its digital upgrades is more promising.

RickC Sniper · 08-24-07, 01:47 PM

With soldiers on the ground carrying GPS devices there should be much less of this happening.

Sadly, we will probably never get told who is to blame here. In the past, the guys on the ground were as likely to be at fault as the pilots.

Salute to the Brits. Any losses are sad, these even more so.

I agree that the old Warthogs are best suited for this.

08-24-07, 06:45 AM	#1
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Blue on blue incident in Afghanistan U.S. bomb kills British soldiers in Afghanistan __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

08-24-07, 07:59 AM	#2
Happy Times Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 2,950 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	RIP __________________

08-24-07, 08:44 AM	#4
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Ah, that's horrible. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

08-24-07, 08:57 AM	#5
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Bad enough them dying over there in the first place but by friendly fire I suppose all the facts wont be known till after the investigation If ever If anything like the last blue on blue there will be no repercussions for the pilots Perhaps that needs to change to wake them up a bit __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

08-24-07, 09:01 AM	#6
Dmitry Markov Officer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Moscow, Russian Federation Posts: 236 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	RIP __________________ Большому кораблю - большая торпеда!

08-24-07, 08:43 AM	#3
bradclark1 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Connecticut, USA. Posts: 2,794 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Bad news. Usually friendlies calling in CAS mark their position so just this kind of incident doesn't happen. Why didn't the pilot confirm positions? Unless the pilot just totally flubbed the bomb run. The news report really doesn't say anything. I guess more information will come out later.

08-24-07, 09:05 AM	#7
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Are those who make these mistakes learning from them? R.I.P PS: I am not having a pop at America just wondering that's all. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

08-24-07, 09:10 AM	#8
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,054 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	RIP

08-24-07, 09:40 AM	#9
SUBMAN1 Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11,866 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Not again! Maybe our pilots are getting tired, and maybe the Brits should pick up their slack for a bit? What the ratio of American sorties vs UK? I'm guessing 50 to 100 to 1, so there is probably 100 times more likelyhood that this will happen to the US instead of the Brits, but why do we always keep hitting the Brits when it happens??!!! Uggh! -S __________________

08-24-07, 10:46 AM	#12
JALU3 Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2007 Location: 11SMS 98896 10565 Posts: 756 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	My prayers and condolences to the families of the servicemembers that died that day, and all others since. However, this isn't the first time this has happened, to both US and Coalition servicemembers . . . and this wont be the last. They pilot, the forward air controller, and the individual giving the bomb coordinates all share the blame, and I am sure that they are not happy with their actions . . . and will be reprimanded for their actions . . . but chances are coordinates were given, someone along the chain of information gave the coordinates of the coalition forces as the target, rather then as information for the pilot to be careful for . . . and thus the event which occured. Regardless of whether it was a coalition or a US aircraft which made the bomb run, doesn't matter, in the end someone made a mistake, and will have to live the rest of their lives with that regret, and probably sometime of that life at a Brig or at Fort Levenworth. This is why it's important to have slow moving, heavily armored CAS designed aircraft to do these type of missions rather then high speed, lightly armored fast movers . . . gives more time for the pilots to have eyes on the ground to assess the situation . . . to provide the support . . . and to more accuratly put the munitions on the target. And an F-16 is not a slow moving, CAS designed aircraft, by any stretch of the information. Furthermore, the end of the A-10 era will, if steps are not taken now, will remove a valuable CAS/COIN asset from the commanders on the ground. Unless Armed Helicopters take up that role, I dare say more events like this will occur at a higher rate then experienced now. Thus, bring back aircraft with the same mission specifications as the OV-10 . . . and continue the service life of the A-10 . . . speed doesn't always mean life . . . sometimes taking your time, means saving a life below you. __________________ "The Federation needs men like you, doctor. Men of conscience. Men of principle. Men who can sleep at night... You're also the reason Section Thirty-one exists -- someone has to protect men like you from a universe that doesn't share your sense of right and wrong." -Sloan, Section Thirty-One

08-24-07, 01:47 PM	#15
RickC Sniper Undetectable Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,221 Downloads: 132 Uploads: 0	With soldiers on the ground carrying GPS devices there should be much less of this happening. Sadly, we will probably never get told who is to blame here. In the past, the guys on the ground were as likely to be at fault as the pilots. Salute to the Brits. Any losses are sad, these even more so. I agree that the old Warthogs are best suited for this. __________________ Support Subsim http://www.subsim.com/store.html