Surfacing from Lurking

HOWNDOG · 08-12-07, 01:03 PM

Been playing SH3 for about a year now but just installed the GWX mod and had to come to port and say, "This is amazing!" and "Thank-you" to the team. All the extra sights and realism really kick the sim to another level. I was returning from my first patrol in 1940 and caught the Bismark steaming out (faster than my type2). Beautiful! Again thanks.

HD

ps.
....now if I could figure out the renown system maybe a type 7 may come soon.....

GoldenRivet · 08-12-07, 01:36 PM

renown system is easy.

You get renown by killing ships, reaching the assigned patrol grid, staying in the assigned patrol grid for 24 hours, actually docking at your home port after the mission is over etc.

Upgrade your U-boat with new equipment by using your renown points to purchase the items available. or even buy a whole new boat.

be careful about using renown because the more you have the higher your rank becomes.

Renown is basically SH3 money

HOWNDOG · 08-12-07, 02:06 PM

On my first patrol I made it to my grid and stumbled onto quite a large cargo ship but knew there was enemy warships nearby. My dilima was to sink the ship and leave the grid before 24hrs or to stay quite to fulfill my orders.

I decided to attack (that's why I'm there isn't it?) and luckily managed to hide again, do my 24hrs and make it home.

A second issue arose in the attack. Due to some past experience I launched 3 fish (wanted to be sure and didn't have time to wait) at the ship only to watch the 1st sink the ship. A waste of 2 is concerning in a type II.

A list of renown points awarded or lost depending on action taken may help my descisions what to do. (do I take out the escort or save weapons for merchents?)

Thx
HD

GoldenRivet · 08-12-07, 02:51 PM

escorts have lower renown value than merchants.

as many have said on this forum before - your mission is to sink merchants carrying vital war materials... without fuel and oil they cannot sail the escorts anyhow.

Dont worry about escorts so early in the war... sink a couple of ships and dive deep as you dare, run ahead slow and rig for silent running and creep away.

generally the larger the merchant ship the more renown she is worth, first chance you get - upgrade to a type VII boat... longer range, more torpedoes, deck gun, you have more options this way and you dont have to be so selective about your targets.

good luck out there!

edit: someone a while back posted a list of ships and their renown value, i dont recall where, but if you just go for heavy merchants you cant go wrong.

Tom · 08-12-07, 02:53 PM

You get a set amount of renown for reaching the patrol zone (200), staying there (200), and getting home (100).

The renown you get for sinking ships depends on your difficulty setting. The lower your difficulty, the less renown you get. If I've understood the sytem correctly, with 100% difficulty, you would get something like 340 for a large tanker, 60 for a tramp steamer, and 120 for a destroyer. With only 50% difficulty you'd get only 1/2 of the above numbers.

My advice is to save your torpedoes for cargo ships, and avoid shooting destroyers, except maybe in self defense.

First of all, destroyers are difficult to hit with a torpedo, unless you catch them unaware and use electric torpedoes. If they see the wake of a steam torpedo, they are fast to turn and change speed, causing you to miss. And if they know you're there, they often don't come to you in a straight path. And, most importantly, unless you hit them, they will depth charge you, and you usually will be uncomfortably close to the surface on their first pass.

Second, the same torpedo will put a lot more merchant tonnage beneath the waves.

So, usually it is best to just avoid destroyers and other escorts. Any warship larger than 10 000 tons is very much worth sinking, however.

I can think of a couple of exceptions though, where I would consider attacking escorts:

If I find a ligthly escorted (1 or 2 escorts) convoy, I might take the escorts out first, in order to freely destroy the merchants. Of course, this mostly makes sense with a type VII or IX, not a type II.

Also, if I find a single merchant escorted by a single escort in shallow water, I might destroy the escort first to ensure my own escape. More than one escort and shallow water is a big no no for me.

As for torpedo economy, many merchants will often sink with one well placed torpedo. For example, try to aim beneath the first mast, and then wait for 30 minutes. If the ship shows no clear signs of sinking, shoot another one slightly forward of midships (so that both hits are at the same end of the ship).

If the merchant is large and another shot might prove difficult due to escorts,bad weather or high target speed, I find it best to shoot two torpedoes and not risk losing the ship alltogether.

GoldenRivet · 08-12-07, 02:56 PM

one other thing i forgot to mention, if you are sending more than two torpedoes at a large merchant ship, you might consider abandoning this practice as two is generally more than enough to get the job done.

remember to adjust your spread angle to account for the range, the smaller the spread the better... you dont want one torpedo going astern and one passing out ahead BOTH missing the target.

smaller merchants will usually only require one torpedo, medium cargos and larger - play it safe and send two shots.

Brag · 08-12-07, 06:36 PM

Welcome aboard this nest of ruffians, Howdog. You may want to check out my webbie where a lot of tactics for SH3 & GWX are discussed.

TarJak · 08-12-07, 10:32 PM

Wilkommen zum Subsim Herr Kaleun,
One thing you should note is that your 24hrs in the patrol grid is cumulative during your patrol. You can leave the grid as many times as you like and still get your full renown for this objective, as long as the total amount of time spent in the grid is equal to or greater than 24hrs.

Gute Jagd!

Zero Niner · 08-12-07, 11:12 PM

Howndog: A bit OT, but are you the same person who did Morrowind mods, together with CanadianIce?

If so, I *love* your Better Bodies mod.

HOWNDOG · 08-13-07, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

Howndog: A bit OT, but are you the same person who did Morrowind mods, together with CanadianIce?

If so, I *love* your Better Bodies mod.

Yup (but we didn't do the actual body) and thx. CI is my wife.

I'm currently running around 54% realism and have found that (especially with the type II) that looking for unescorted stragglers to be quite effective. As the wolf would. It saves alot of playing possum which can be a real issue with the small crew that has trouble manning all stations effectively even when not under stress.

The 24hr thing being cumalative will definately help me as I've taken a few risks trying to stay in the grid (both while chasing ships or being chased)

Thanks all for the help. I will check out those tips on the web and be more patient with the launches but that saying "one bird in hand is better than two in the trees" always itches my finger.

HD

ps.
The working Kiel canal is the greatest thing since saurkraut and sausage.

HOWNDOG · 08-13-07, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brag

Welcome aboard this nest of ruffians, Howdog. You may want to check out my webbie where a lot of tactics for SH3 & GWX are discussed.

...now that I look I see that I've already snooped. Some very interesting tips there, one or two I've already planned to use as soon as I can get back into the boot.

thx
HD

ReallyDedPoet · 08-14-07, 12:18 AM

Welcome to SUBSIM

HOWNDOG

RDP

Captain Nemo · 08-14-07, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

If I've understood the sytem correctly, with 100% difficulty, you would get something like 340 for a large tanker, 60 for a tramp steamer, and 120 for a destroyer. With only 50% difficulty you'd get only 1/2 of the above numbers.

Not quite, you're right in that at 100% difficulty you get full renown but at lower realism settings it is not as straight forward as that. For example:

0% realism = 25% of the renown value
25% realism = 43.75% of the renown value
50% realism = 62.5% of the renown value
75% realism = 81.25% of the renown value
100% realism = 100% of the renown value

The reason its done this way is because if you decide to play at 0% realism you still earn renown. I have devised a small spreadsheet in Excel that works it out for you.

Nemo

Tom · 08-14-07, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Nemo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

If I've understood the sytem correctly, with 100% difficulty, you would get something like 340 for a large tanker, 60 for a tramp steamer, and 120 for a destroyer. With only 50% difficulty you'd get only 1/2 of the above numbers.

Not quite, you're right in that at 100% difficulty you get full renown but at lower realism settings it is not as straight forward as that. For example:

0% realism = 25% of the renown value
25% realism = 43.75% of the renown value
50% realism = 62.5% of the renown value
75% realism = 81.25% of the renown value
100% realism = 100% of the renown value

The reason its done this way is because if you decide to play at 0% realism you still earn renown. I have devised a small spreadsheet in Excel that works it out for you.

Nemo

Oh, ok, that makes sense. My mistake, not checking the figures before posting. So the correct formula is:

renown = (25% + 3/4 * realism_setting) * ship_value

HOWNDOG · 08-20-07, 11:20 PM

Well they're killing my little tub in the Dover straits. Everytime I go through it's worse and I'm still in 1940. Why don't the German ships go in there and clean it out!

Are there any Depth charts available for SH3? Particularily the English channel? I can't run. Can't hide. Can't fight back......and I sure as hell don't/can't go around.

thx
HD

08-12-07, 01:03 PM	#1
HOWNDOG Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 6 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Surfacing from Lurking Been playing SH3 for about a year now but just installed the GWX mod and had to come to port and say, "This is amazing!" and "Thank-you" to the team. All the extra sights and realism really kick the sim to another level. I was returning from my first patrol in 1940 and caught the Bismark steaming out (faster than my type2). Beautiful! Again thanks. HD ps. ....now if I could figure out the renown system maybe a type 7 may come soon.....

08-12-07, 01:36 PM	#2
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	renown system is easy. You get renown by killing ships, reaching the assigned patrol grid, staying in the assigned patrol grid for 24 hours, actually docking at your home port after the mission is over etc. Upgrade your U-boat with new equipment by using your renown points to purchase the items available. or even buy a whole new boat. be careful about using renown because the more you have the higher your rank becomes. Renown is basically SH3 money __________________

08-12-07, 02:51 PM	#4
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	escorts have lower renown value than merchants. as many have said on this forum before - your mission is to sink merchants carrying vital war materials... without fuel and oil they cannot sail the escorts anyhow. Dont worry about escorts so early in the war... sink a couple of ships and dive deep as you dare, run ahead slow and rig for silent running and creep away. generally the larger the merchant ship the more renown she is worth, first chance you get - upgrade to a type VII boat... longer range, more torpedoes, deck gun, you have more options this way and you dont have to be so selective about your targets. good luck out there! edit: someone a while back posted a list of ships and their renown value, i dont recall where, but if you just go for heavy merchants you cant go wrong. __________________

08-12-07, 02:56 PM	#6
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	one other thing i forgot to mention, if you are sending more than two torpedoes at a large merchant ship, you might consider abandoning this practice as two is generally more than enough to get the job done. remember to adjust your spread angle to account for the range, the smaller the spread the better... you dont want one torpedo going astern and one passing out ahead BOTH missing the target. smaller merchants will usually only require one torpedo, medium cargos and larger - play it safe and send two shots. __________________

08-12-07, 06:36 PM	#7
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard this nest of ruffians, Howdog. You may want to check out my webbie where a lot of tactics for SH3 & GWX are discussed. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

08-12-07, 02:06 PM	#3
HOWNDOG Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 6 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	On my first patrol I made it to my grid and stumbled onto quite a large cargo ship but knew there was enemy warships nearby. My dilima was to sink the ship and leave the grid before 24hrs or to stay quite to fulfill my orders. I decided to attack (that's why I'm there isn't it?) and luckily managed to hide again, do my 24hrs and make it home. A second issue arose in the attack. Due to some past experience I launched 3 fish (wanted to be sure and didn't have time to wait) at the ship only to watch the 1st sink the ship. A waste of 2 is concerning in a type II. A list of renown points awarded or lost depending on action taken may help my descisions what to do. (do I take out the escort or save weapons for merchents?) Thx HD

08-12-07, 02:53 PM	#5
Tom Gunner Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 97 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	You get a set amount of renown for reaching the patrol zone (200), staying there (200), and getting home (100). The renown you get for sinking ships depends on your difficulty setting. The lower your difficulty, the less renown you get. If I've understood the sytem correctly, with 100% difficulty, you would get something like 340 for a large tanker, 60 for a tramp steamer, and 120 for a destroyer. With only 50% difficulty you'd get only 1/2 of the above numbers. My advice is to save your torpedoes for cargo ships, and avoid shooting destroyers, except maybe in self defense. First of all, destroyers are difficult to hit with a torpedo, unless you catch them unaware and use electric torpedoes. If they see the wake of a steam torpedo, they are fast to turn and change speed, causing you to miss. And if they know you're there, they often don't come to you in a straight path. And, most importantly, unless you hit them, they will depth charge you, and you usually will be uncomfortably close to the surface on their first pass. Second, the same torpedo will put a lot more merchant tonnage beneath the waves. So, usually it is best to just avoid destroyers and other escorts. Any warship larger than 10 000 tons is very much worth sinking, however. I can think of a couple of exceptions though, where I would consider attacking escorts: If I find a ligthly escorted (1 or 2 escorts) convoy, I might take the escorts out first, in order to freely destroy the merchants. Of course, this mostly makes sense with a type VII or IX, not a type II. Also, if I find a single merchant escorted by a single escort in shallow water, I might destroy the escort first to ensure my own escape. More than one escort and shallow water is a big no no for me. As for torpedo economy, many merchants will often sink with one well placed torpedo. For example, try to aim beneath the first mast, and then wait for 30 minutes. If the ship shows no clear signs of sinking, shoot another one slightly forward of midships (so that both hits are at the same end of the ship). If the merchant is large and another shot might prove difficult due to escorts,bad weather or high target speed, I find it best to shoot two torpedoes and not risk losing the ship alltogether.

08-12-07, 10:32 PM	#8
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Wilkommen zum Subsim Herr Kaleun, One thing you should note is that your 24hrs in the patrol grid is cumulative during your patrol. You can leave the grid as many times as you like and still get your full renown for this objective, as long as the total amount of time spent in the grid is equal to or greater than 24hrs. Gute Jagd!

08-12-07, 11:12 PM	#9
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,033 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	OT Howndog: A bit OT, but are you the same person who did Morrowind mods, together with CanadianIce? If so, I love your Better Bodies mod.

08-14-07, 12:18 AM	#12
ReallyDedPoet Canadian Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada. The one and only, East Coast Posts: 10,884 Downloads: 946 Uploads: 5	Welcome to SUBSIM HOWNDOG RDP __________________ Back in the Day

08-20-07, 11:20 PM	#15
HOWNDOG Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 6 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Well they're killing my little tub in the Dover straits. Everytime I go through it's worse and I'm still in 1940. Why don't the German ships go in there and clean it out! Are there any Depth charts available for SH3? Particularily the English channel? I can't run. Can't hide. Can't fight back......and I sure as hell don't/can't go around. thx HD