Brag's Wiggle Waggle Maneuvre.

Brag · 05-05-07, 01:13 PM

Achtung Kaleuns!

This carefully developed, researched and tested maneuvre drives escorts nuts. If you perform it after launching your torpedoes at a convoy, chances are the escorts will never get a fix on your position because they will be looking for you elswhere.

Execution:
The moment you launch your last torpedo, order ahead flank and a depth of 100 meters. You follow by changing course 20 degrees (either port or starboard) --This is the Wiggle.

As you reach 50 meters, order speed of one knot. Inmediately change course 20 degrees in the opposite direction of the Wiggle. Now you are drifting silently in the Waggle.

The escorts will pass you by and look for you elswhere.

This maneuvre has worked for me on four GWX patrols. Let me know how it works for you

Paajtor · 05-05-07, 01:41 PM

Gonna try it on next occasion...is it ok too, if I waggle first before I wiggle? :rotfl:

GoldenRivet · 05-05-07, 01:53 PM

Brag thats almost exacly what i do when i hit a large convoy with a lot of escorts... you should mention though that if you advance to flank speed and make the turn you will almost guarantee yourself to be detected therfore if your shots have any kind of longer range to them you might wait until they are within 20 seconds of impact to start making a lot of noise.... otherwise the convoy may zig zag around your eels.

byt yea, it works... historically i guess they go for the sound of where the torpedo launch was heard? but you can be several hundred meters away from the scene and very deep by the time the first escort arrives.

Sailor Steve · 05-05-07, 03:26 PM

I usually go silent as soon as the last one's away, and start diving immediately. I hate making lots of noise.

rb4door · 05-05-07, 09:11 PM

keeping in mind I dont want to alert my presence immediately after i've launched the fish, i'm definately trying this method out.

I suppose if you are in a convoy and the ships are already taking evasive manouvers, it wont hurt to do it immediately after firing.

Brag · 05-05-07, 09:15 PM

I just pulled it off again after torpedoing a Revenge inside a tight screen of 4 or 5 destroyers.

They never even got close

TarJak · 05-05-07, 09:20 PM

I do something like this when crash diving from aircraft attacks however I keep going at flank cos they can't hear me.

I go flank and start a 10 degree rudder turn away from the direction the plane is approaching, then when I get to about 15m I switch 10 degrees, back staying at flank and going for 60m as fast as possible.

When firing I stay quiet unless I know I'm detected and start diving as soon as the eels are on their way. If I then get picked up I might go flank but again only use 10 degree rudder so it doesn't slow me down too much. The dive will knock a knot or two off anyway so I want as much downward force as possible moving me out of the way.

Telgriff · 05-05-07, 09:58 PM

Definately need to try this tactic, seein as the 4 patrols I have done in GWX have all ended in my running for my life from some very angry DD's after a convoy attack. True...popping up behind them at random to take potshots before crash diving and hard turning probably didnt help....

KeptinCranky · 05-06-07, 04:14 AM

something very similar works for me too, although not when really close to one escort or another.then I generally drift downwards along the track of the last fish, with 5 to 10 degrees rudder away from the closest escort

If you have some room to play with, you might consider only going to about 4knts or so, makes less noise, oh, and decoys

also, why is it that escorts don't really respond to premature torpedoes, I had one blow up on me in rough weather the other day, went off maybe 50 meters from my boat

but no-one seemed to care....

Umfuld · 05-06-07, 07:42 AM

I like to stay quiet too. But in the sluggish IX I've begun to go at 5 knots from the time I fire until maybe 6 seconds after then I cut it back to silent again.

So sort of what you do with less time making noise.

Just that 20 seconds or so can get you those vital first few meters of depth. Then it's just pray as you VERY SLOWLY drift down.
Usually make minor turns until I'm heading in the opposite direction of the convoy.

Brag · 05-06-07, 01:59 PM

I found that apparently, escorts don't pick up noise near the surface inside a convoy. But staying near the launch spot is BAAAD. The DD's head straight for it.

Canovaro · 05-07-07, 01:35 AM

Will try!

I suggest giving this maneuvre another name though

Henri II · 05-07-07, 01:44 AM

That's actually my standard evasion technique, at least in 39-41 it works about 9 out of 10 times. The only difference is that I usually do this only when I'm sure I've been detected, no need to go flank if they don't yet know where you are.

Avatar · 05-07-07, 12:42 PM

Nice one. Good call. Post this at your website, it's becoming the "how to fight" and more importantly, "how to live" site on the web.

Edit: For those who play Dangerous Waters I posted a similar maneuver here, just scroll down til you find me
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=105392

STEED · 05-07-07, 12:56 PM

I don't fart around at all. If I am on the surface double knuckle turn and keep running until about 30 seconds before the first torp hits crash dive and go dead silent.

Simula thing at Periscope depth. We all know the destroyers will bare down on the direction of the torp in pact, so you got to get out of that area fast. every second you gain helps you, sticking around watching the firework display is real dumb.

I will give your method ago Brag, as my happy times are well and truly over.

Late 1943 is not nice at all.

05-05-07, 01:13 PM	#1
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Brag's Wiggle Waggle Maneuvre. Achtung Kaleuns! This carefully developed, researched and tested maneuvre drives escorts nuts. If you perform it after launching your torpedoes at a convoy, chances are the escorts will never get a fix on your position because they will be looking for you elswhere. Execution: The moment you launch your last torpedo, order ahead flank and a depth of 100 meters. You follow by changing course 20 degrees (either port or starboard) --This is the Wiggle. As you reach 50 meters, order speed of one knot. Inmediately change course 20 degrees in the opposite direction of the Wiggle. Now you are drifting silently in the Waggle. The escorts will pass you by and look for you elswhere. This maneuvre has worked for me on four GWX patrols. Let me know how it works for you __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

05-05-07, 01:41 PM	#2
Paajtor The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Dutch mountains Posts: 1,551 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 1	Gonna try it on next occasion...is it ok too, if I waggle first before I wiggle? :rotfl: __________________

05-05-07, 01:53 PM	#3
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Brag thats almost exacly what i do when i hit a large convoy with a lot of escorts... you should mention though that if you advance to flank speed and make the turn you will almost guarantee yourself to be detected therfore if your shots have any kind of longer range to them you might wait until they are within 20 seconds of impact to start making a lot of noise.... otherwise the convoy may zig zag around your eels. byt yea, it works... historically i guess they go for the sound of where the torpedo launch was heard? but you can be several hundred meters away from the scene and very deep by the time the first escort arrives. __________________

05-05-07, 03:26 PM	#4
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I usually go silent as soon as the last one's away, and start diving immediately. I hate making lots of noise. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

05-05-07, 09:15 PM	#6
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I just pulled it off again after torpedoing a Revenge inside a tight screen of 4 or 5 destroyers. They never even got close __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

05-05-07, 09:11 PM	#5
rb4door Machinist's Mate Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: St Naz Posts: 129 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	keeping in mind I dont want to alert my presence immediately after i've launched the fish, i'm definately trying this method out. I suppose if you are in a convoy and the ships are already taking evasive manouvers, it wont hurt to do it immediately after firing.

05-05-07, 09:20 PM	#7
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	I do something like this when crash diving from aircraft attacks however I keep going at flank cos they can't hear me. I go flank and start a 10 degree rudder turn away from the direction the plane is approaching, then when I get to about 15m I switch 10 degrees, back staying at flank and going for 60m as fast as possible. When firing I stay quiet unless I know I'm detected and start diving as soon as the eels are on their way. If I then get picked up I might go flank but again only use 10 degree rudder so it doesn't slow me down too much. The dive will knock a knot or two off anyway so I want as much downward force as possible moving me out of the way.

05-05-07, 09:58 PM	#8
Telgriff 中国水兵 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 272 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Definately need to try this tactic, seein as the 4 patrols I have done in GWX have all ended in my running for my life from some very angry DD's after a convoy attack. True...popping up behind them at random to take potshots before crash diving and hard turning probably didnt help.... __________________ Back into the hunt after far too long, GWX 3 Gold, SH3 Commander, DiD Rules, 27% realism and rising Intel Core2Duo 6400 GeForce 8800GTS 4 Gig DDr2

05-06-07, 04:14 AM	#9
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	something very similar works for me too, although not when really close to one escort or another.then I generally drift downwards along the track of the last fish, with 5 to 10 degrees rudder away from the closest escort If you have some room to play with, you might consider only going to about 4knts or so, makes less noise, oh, and decoys also, why is it that escorts don't really respond to premature torpedoes, I had one blow up on me in rough weather the other day, went off maybe 50 meters from my boat but no-one seemed to care....

05-06-07, 07:42 AM	#10
Umfuld Captain Join Date: May 2006 Location: USA Posts: 503 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I like to stay quiet too. But in the sluggish IX I've begun to go at 5 knots from the time I fire until maybe 6 seconds after then I cut it back to silent again. So sort of what you do with less time making noise. Just that 20 seconds or so can get you those vital first few meters of depth. Then it's just pray as you VERY SLOWLY drift down. Usually make minor turns until I'm heading in the opposite direction of the convoy.

05-06-07, 01:59 PM	#11
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I found that apparently, escorts don't pick up noise near the surface inside a convoy. But staying near the launch spot is BAAAD. The DD's head straight for it. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

05-07-07, 01:35 AM	#12
Canovaro Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,062 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Will try! I suggest giving this maneuvre another name though

05-07-07, 01:44 AM	#13
Henri II Sparky Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 156 Downloads: 47 Uploads: 0	That's actually my standard evasion technique, at least in 39-41 it works about 9 out of 10 times. The only difference is that I usually do this only when I'm sure I've been detected, no need to go flank if they don't yet know where you are.

05-07-07, 12:42 PM	#14
Avatar Commodore Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Way out there Posts: 603 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Nice one. Good call. Post this at your website, it's becoming the "how to fight" and more importantly, "how to live" site on the web. Edit: For those who play Dangerous Waters I posted a similar maneuver here, just scroll down til you find me http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=105392

05-07-07, 12:56 PM	#15
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	I don't fart around at all. If I am on the surface double knuckle turn and keep running until about 30 seconds before the first torp hits crash dive and go dead silent. Simula thing at Periscope depth. We all know the destroyers will bare down on the direction of the torp in pact, so you got to get out of that area fast. every second you gain helps you, sticking around watching the firework display is real dumb. I will give your method ago Brag, as my happy times are well and truly over. Late 1943 is not nice at all. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!