Convoy ambush tactics - 2 choices

UnterseeBoogeyMan · 04-24-07, 09:21 PM

shadowing a convoy at dusk, will attack at dark. It's 1939, I use impact torpedoes only, becuase I know magnetic isn't reliable until after the Norway invasion. I want to fire a spread of torpedoes and get two targets before hauling out of there. The risk is hitting target not quite 90 degrees to it's hull, and the torpedo at risk of not exploding.
Given the time period, i'm seeking advice; better to get in close, take the sure kill at 1000 meters or go fr two at 1500 to 2000? thoughts?

blue3golf · 04-24-07, 09:33 PM

I would shoot for both as long as the impact angle is anywhere between 45 and 90 degrees, sometimes less. If they're fat targets then maybe try to reposition to get better angles. Thats just me. If torpedoes don't go off, hopefully out of 4 they're not all duds. Should still get something.

Brag · 04-24-07, 09:53 PM

Early in the war, duds are a problem. A good AOB is more important than distance. I choose two targets. Fire 2 torps at the more distant one first. Then fire the second pair --dive deep quickly then go to 1 knot once you have reached 60 meters. If DDs come after you, go to flank speed and continue dive when DD is on top of you.

Good luck!

TarJak · 04-25-07, 01:00 AM

Get your AOB sorted and in 1939 get as close as possible. If they weather is good enough, set the torpedo depth at ~1m below the keel depth of your target and use a magnetic pistol. You AOB then won't matter quite so much, but you may still get misses and duds that early in the war.

I now ususally only use magnetics when the AOB can't be fixed by manouver and find it quite effective on DD's in attack runs at short (<500m) ranges.

Kaleun Cook · 04-25-07, 01:05 AM

The distance really doesn't matter that much. Sank two light cruisers in the running patrol with impact pistols from around 3000 meters.

Maraz · 04-25-07, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleun Cook

The distance really doesn't matter that much. Sank two light cruisers in the running patrol with impact pistols from around 3000 meters.

With WO assistance or not?

If you are manually computing your solution, a small AOB or Speed error counts little if the target is close, counts much more (up to cause a miss) if the target is far.

Maraz

P_Funk · 04-25-07, 02:42 AM

AoB is the biggest one. If you scout out the Convoy ahead of time before dark then you will know the course and with the course you can easily calculate exact AoB. Also advanced scouting gives you accurate speed. With those two in hand range makes little difference so long as your approximation is in the same ballpark.

Also, when attacking a convoy using single torpedoes is not in keeping with realistic occurences. While Otto and the other early war aces would use the "one torpedo, one ship" policy, that was only when they could be in the midst of the convoy and fire at point blank range.

Mostly, however, kaleuns used spread shots to ensure multiple hits and sinkings. A spread shot is more forgiving for inaccurate solutions and it also has a good chance of hitting something behind the target if you miss.

Kaleu. Jochen Mohr · 04-25-07, 05:32 PM

i didnt have seen a convoy at my career

but in multyplayer i play with my bro (beleve it or not he is 7 years old and almoast a pro) and fight at 100% realism,large convoys,escorts and planes.

we attack at the front (escorts first) with torpedoes.
then we surface and use the deck gun and torpedoes.

most of the convoy is destroyed when we run out of ammo and torpedoes

Kaleun Cook · 04-25-07, 05:53 PM

Quote:

With WO assistance or not?

Well, without WO assistance but with automatic targeting (I never understood why that is split into two points in the realism menu). So I'd say the comp did it for me (but it didn't work for the first of two torpedoes shot at the first cruiser for some reason). Of course it's easier if you are closer and especially when targeting manually.

P_Funk · 04-25-07, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleun Cook

Quote:

With WO assistance or not?

Well, without WO assistance but with automatic targeting (I never understood why that is split into two points in the realism menu). So I'd say the comp did it for me (but it didn't work for the first of two torpedoes shot at the first cruiser for some reason). Of course it's easier if you are closer and especially when targeting manually.

Well there are two reasons that an auto-TDC torpedo can miss. The first is that you should open outer doors before you fire because the delay in opening them after you hit fire throws off the targeting solution. Secondly there is a stock bug not solved by any patch that causes the TDC to read the torpedo speed differently from what it is. So if your steam torpedo is set to fast the bug might make it so that it calculates it as if it were going slow. The solution to this is to just click the speed to fast every time you fire just to reset the TDC.

I couldn't figure out why I was missing at first when I started to play way back in 05. I read a few threads and suddenly Aotu-TDC really started to seem like a cheat.

The torpedo speed bug however and the outer doors thing are both relavent to manual as well.

Kaleun Cook · 04-25-07, 06:08 PM

Must have been that bug then. Well I tried to fire manually sometimes but that's just too much stuff to do for me since I'm not really a hardcore realism player in that case.

Kaleu. Jochen Mohr · 04-25-07, 07:09 PM

at my career i dont play with full realism either.
it only becouse my little bro loves to play with full realism.

if i play a full realism career i die from the moment i meet a destroyer.
when im not on 100% realism he die's

UnterseeBoogeyMan · 04-25-07, 11:25 PM

1st off, I do not use WO assistance but I do have assisted targeting; in other words the only thing the computer does for me is calc range, aob and speed then I do the rest. 90% realism.

thanks for all the input guys, I did finally lean towards the sure kill. Got within 1500 of my target 10 degrees to port, is when I opened the doors and fired. It was a large merchant. My first shot went just ahead of the engine room where I guessed the fuel cells would be. My next shot I aimed at the rudder. Depth was half the depth of the draft (>4.5). Each shot was a second apart. I immediately went down to 100 meters, silent running at 1 knot, didn't even stick around to watch the fireworks.

I was at 20 meters when the first explosion went off, then the 2nd at 30 meters. Then I heard my officer say she's sinking. I decide to head S, since the approach of the nearest Black Swan DD is SE.

I try to give him a small profile if he's pinging. He continues on his SE course past me and when he's 150 degrees to my portside, he turns around and heads northwest. I am at 60 meters depth now and I hear him at high speed pinging away. He does this racetrack for about 5 more laps then gives up, speeding up to get to the front of the convoy again. I change course due East, the convoy is heading 002 North. At this point, I will wait for the Black Swan DD in the rear to put 8 km on me. By then, I will surface, reload torpedoes, and make one more attack in the dark. I hope to shadow this convoy until I burn up all my torpedoes. I have 8 left.

The price for not sticking around for the explosion paid off, becuase I can make another attack at night. Leaving before they got spooked seemed to help me. Otherwise, those DDs can be on you like Sauerkraut on Brautwurst.

P_Funk · 04-25-07, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnterseeBoogeyMan

The price for not sticking around for the explosion paid off, becuase I can make another attack at night. Leaving before they got spooked seemed to help me.

Now you've got her figured out!

Smart man.

Kaleun Cook · 04-26-07, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Brautwurst

It's Bratwurst! Do not ever dare to misspell this holy german meal again!

J/k of course. Well, I think you did everything right. Since the juicy tankers sometimes sail in the middle of the convoy I often get too close to the ships on the sides. Suddenly there are 10+ lightfingers pointed on the boat and a lot of shelling flying around. I think 1 - 1,5 km is the best distance.

04-24-07, 09:21 PM	#1
UnterseeBoogeyMan Ensign Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Land of Cholla Cactus and Red Chile Posts: 224 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Convoy ambush tactics - 2 choices shadowing a convoy at dusk, will attack at dark. It's 1939, I use impact torpedoes only, becuase I know magnetic isn't reliable until after the Norway invasion. I want to fire a spread of torpedoes and get two targets before hauling out of there. The risk is hitting target not quite 90 degrees to it's hull, and the torpedo at risk of not exploding. Given the time period, i'm seeking advice; better to get in close, take the sure kill at 1000 meters or go fr two at 1500 to 2000? thoughts?

04-24-07, 09:53 PM	#3
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Early in the war, duds are a problem. A good AOB is more important than distance. I choose two targets. Fire 2 torps at the more distant one first. Then fire the second pair --dive deep quickly then go to 1 knot once you have reached 60 meters. If DDs come after you, go to flank speed and continue dive when DD is on top of you. Good luck! __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

04-25-07, 02:42 AM	#7
P_Funk Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 2,537 Downloads: 129 Uploads: 0	AoB is the biggest one. If you scout out the Convoy ahead of time before dark then you will know the course and with the course you can easily calculate exact AoB. Also advanced scouting gives you accurate speed. With those two in hand range makes little difference so long as your approximation is in the same ballpark. Also, when attacking a convoy using single torpedoes is not in keeping with realistic occurences. While Otto and the other early war aces would use the "one torpedo, one ship" policy, that was only when they could be in the midst of the convoy and fire at point blank range. Mostly, however, kaleuns used spread shots to ensure multiple hits and sinkings. A spread shot is more forgiving for inaccurate solutions and it also has a good chance of hitting something behind the target if you miss. __________________

04-25-07, 05:32 PM	#8
Kaleu. Jochen Mohr Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: in my sub Posts: 2,741 Downloads: 47 Uploads: 0	i didnt have seen a convoy at my career but in multyplayer i play with my bro (beleve it or not he is 7 years old and almoast a pro) and fight at 100% realism,large convoys,escorts and planes. we attack at the front (escorts first) with torpedoes. then we surface and use the deck gun and torpedoes. most of the convoy is destroyed when we run out of ammo and torpedoes __________________ Gruß

04-25-07, 07:09 PM	#12
Kaleu. Jochen Mohr Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: in my sub Posts: 2,741 Downloads: 47 Uploads: 0	at my career i dont play with full realism either. it only becouse my little bro loves to play with full realism. if i play a full realism career i die from the moment i meet a destroyer. when im not on 100% realism he die's __________________ Gruß

04-24-07, 09:33 PM	#2
blue3golf Weps Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Traverse City, MI Posts: 352 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I would shoot for both as long as the impact angle is anywhere between 45 and 90 degrees, sometimes less. If they're fat targets then maybe try to reposition to get better angles. Thats just me. If torpedoes don't go off, hopefully out of 4 they're not all duds. Should still get something.

04-25-07, 01:00 AM	#4
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Get your AOB sorted and in 1939 get as close as possible. If they weather is good enough, set the torpedo depth at ~1m below the keel depth of your target and use a magnetic pistol. You AOB then won't matter quite so much, but you may still get misses and duds that early in the war. I now ususally only use magnetics when the AOB can't be fixed by manouver and find it quite effective on DD's in attack runs at short (<500m) ranges.

04-25-07, 01:05 AM	#5
Kaleun Cook Chief Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ger Posts: 313 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	The distance really doesn't matter that much. Sank two light cruisers in the running patrol with impact pistols from around 3000 meters.

04-25-07, 06:08 PM	#11
Kaleun Cook Chief Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ger Posts: 313 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Must have been that bug then. Well I tried to fire manually sometimes but that's just too much stuff to do for me since I'm not really a hardcore realism player in that case.

04-25-07, 11:25 PM	#13
UnterseeBoogeyMan Ensign Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Land of Cholla Cactus and Red Chile Posts: 224 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	1st off, I do not use WO assistance but I do have assisted targeting; in other words the only thing the computer does for me is calc range, aob and speed then I do the rest. 90% realism. thanks for all the input guys, I did finally lean towards the sure kill. Got within 1500 of my target 10 degrees to port, is when I opened the doors and fired. It was a large merchant. My first shot went just ahead of the engine room where I guessed the fuel cells would be. My next shot I aimed at the rudder. Depth was half the depth of the draft (>4.5). Each shot was a second apart. I immediately went down to 100 meters, silent running at 1 knot, didn't even stick around to watch the fireworks. I was at 20 meters when the first explosion went off, then the 2nd at 30 meters. Then I heard my officer say she's sinking. I decide to head S, since the approach of the nearest Black Swan DD is SE. I try to give him a small profile if he's pinging. He continues on his SE course past me and when he's 150 degrees to my portside, he turns around and heads northwest. I am at 60 meters depth now and I hear him at high speed pinging away. He does this racetrack for about 5 more laps then gives up, speeding up to get to the front of the convoy again. I change course due East, the convoy is heading 002 North. At this point, I will wait for the Black Swan DD in the rear to put 8 km on me. By then, I will surface, reload torpedoes, and make one more attack in the dark. I hope to shadow this convoy until I burn up all my torpedoes. I have 8 left. The price for not sticking around for the explosion paid off, becuase I can make another attack at night. Leaving before they got spooked seemed to help me. Otherwise, those DDs can be on you like Sauerkraut on Brautwurst.