Europe's migrant problem

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Europe didn't turn a middle eastern country into a breeding nest for terrorists, the US did. And don't count that little poodle Tony Blair as Europe assisting the war.

You must be having a bad day, uh Betonov?

Maybe it's the time zone problem?

Chill out man this isn't some soccer game

[XabbaRus]

While I don't disagree that Assad isn't the most savoury of characters we still don't seem to have learned the lesson of encouraging the toppling of leaders we don't like (though we found them useful) and what happens when they have gone. Assad should have been encouraged to talk rather then put down the protests before the opposition was hijacked by the loonie militant Islamists, however he felt (and probably quite justifiable) that if he stepped down his fate would not be kind. By that I'm not meaning a trial and a prison sentence, but as seems to be the way in that part of the world a kidnap and a noose. They are big on revenge.

Are you suggesting that once the protests turned into an armed struggle we should have put boots on the ground? It is a situation where we do nothing, and you have the rise of IS due to a power vacuum in areas of Syria and the ineffectual government in Iraq. If we put boots on the ground it again becomes a recruitment drive for IS as the infidel is back. If we went in with overwhelming firepower I can see once again we would be accused of invading their lands and yet another islamic loony group comes about. At the end of the day, they don't have a real grasp of democracy. Look at Egypt, they had a democratic vote but the winning party decided that it is a winner takes all and damn the rest. The people understood that shouldn't be the case, but the politicians (I'm sure they do) choose not to and ignore the opposition and rig it to cling to power. So Assad, like Saddam before him whether we like it or not kept a lid on things. But hey in the guise of neo-liberalism and everyone should have democracy we jumped in without recognising the consequences of what we have promoted. The result is IS. The UK and USA are most responsible given the Second Gulf War, but the EU did little in the UN to stop it. Only Russia spoke up but they were ignored.

However a good point was made on the radio. The migrants, once they reach the likes of Turkey technically can't be considered in danger, as they are in Syria, therefore we are under no obligation to take them. In short it is Turkey's problem.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

You must be having a bad day, uh Betonov?

Quite contrary, I'm having a wonderfull week.
In two weeks time I'll no longer be of an unemployed specie and in the spring my friend is movign with his wife and I'll rent his apartment for one third of the price such an apartment costs. I also lost 10kg and I expect to loose another this autumn

I'll chill when clueless people will stop spreading lies and crap on this forum and stop getting praised for it.
Like I said, when Rockstar becomes an expert in Euro politics here I'll become an expert in Martian geology.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Quite contrary, I'm having a wonderfull week.
In two weeks time I'll no longer be of an unemployed specie and in the spring my friend is movign with his wife and I'll rent his apartment for one third of the price such an apartment costs. I also lost 10kg and I expect to loose another this autumn

I'll chill when clueless people will stop spreading lies and crap on this forum and stop getting praised for it.
Like I said, when Rockstar becomes an expert in Euro politics here I'll become an expert in Martian geology.

Congrats on the new job, I bet that's a relief!

As for clueless people, I'm sure everyone thinks the same of everyone else, these discussions are largely a matter of opinion. I'm quite willing to concede many know a lot more than me about European affairs. Many Europeans know more about American affairs, too, judging by the profuse number of US-centered topics that they participate in.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Congrats on the new job, I bet that's a relief!

It's the old job actually.
I'm a little angry because my pay went down €300/month but I'll take the offer and work on a better pay/job from a much better position.

And about clueless people. I don't expect everyone here to know Europe like they have doctorates. But I believe that reasonable people, like Torplexed and Steve, won't take an arogant know-it-all stance and then spew miss-information. Even myself toned down the anti-gun rhetoric as I slowly figured out that gun laws are above my knowledge. Though I still lash out when someone tries to sell me that Europe is a lawless feudalism because we need permits for guns.
In the same way I'll lash out at every member trying to sell complete bollocks on any Euro topic.

[Onkel Neal]

Fair enough

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Dowly

And people still wonder why American's are thought as ignorant pricks...

Originally Posted by Dowly

My response was towards August, who, again, tries to circumvent the issue.

And there lies the problem....name calling and insults cross the line of what behaviour we all expect from members of our community.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Betonov

It's the old job actually.
I'm a little angry because my pay went down €300/month but I'll take the offer and work on a better pay/job from a much better position.

Congratulations Anze.....a step however small but in the right direction.

Good luck on that adventure mate

[ikalugin]

I think I need a shave too.

[August]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

And there lies the problem....name calling and insults cross the line of what behaviour we all expect from members of our community.

Geez I only said that we didn't specifically guarantee something and it generates such hateful invective...

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

I think I need a shave too.

I've read somewhere that that is fake, created by the cretins of the EDL.

So, where do we stand now that it's been revealed the young boy and his family had been safe and settled in Turkey for quite a while, had accommodation and job (the father, not the boy) and was only migrating to get free dental work? And why hasn't it been mentioned in this thread so far? Or did I miss it?

[ikalugin]

It is the question many people ask here. If people got adequate security in the border states (ie their basic health and safety needs are filled), then why they emigrate further?

Maybe they are not only running from (violence and destruction) but also to (perceived huge payments, free social housing and excellent healthcare and what not)?

[mapuc]

Some days ago I heard some EU-politicians saying

There are two types of those whole fleeing

Refugees and immigrants

These words divided me-

Refugess - Yes we are obligated to help them who's fleeing from wars etc

But are we also obligated to help immigrants ? people who's not fleeing from wars etc

Markus

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

It is the question many people ask here. If people got adequate security in the border states (ie their basic health and safety needs are filled), then why they emigrate further?

Maybe they are not only running from (violence and destruction) but also to (perceived huge payments, free social housing and excellent healthcare and what not)?

Many Danish and Swedish people are asking them self the same question- Why are they travelling through whole Europe-Through several othere safe-haven-countries towards Denmark and Sweden ?

In Denmark, the new government have cut the benefits with about 50 % for newcomer. This from September 1th.

Markus

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Some days ago I heard some EU-politicians saying

There are two types of those whole fleeing

Refugees and immigrants

These words divided me-

Refugess - Yes we are obligated to help them who's fleeing from wars etc

But are we also obligated to help immigrants ? people who's not fleeing from wars etc

Markus

Problem is, we don't know who's a refugee and who's an immigrant.

Great example from yesterday, when our prime minister interviewed this 17yo Iraqi boy in the Refugee center of Oulu. The boy pleaded for our PM to help him.

Well.. turns out this 17yo boy actually turns 20 in November (he looks even older to me) and according to his facebook account, he left Iraq in 2012 and has been travelin all over Europe since then. Turkey, Bulgaria, Hungary, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark and now Finland.

He switched his FB account to private earlier today, but the photos I saw there didn't exactly say "I'm a poor refugee".

Photos like this:


And this:



And the most upsetting part is that our media is virtually silent. MTV (who filmed the interview) has now removed the video, so they are well aware of it. Overall, the media in Finland has gone to full-on blackout when it comes to anything negative concerning refugees/immigrants.