Top Nazi Rudolf Hess exhumed from 'pilgrimage' grave

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Yea I think it was, Hitler had a deep respect for the English (the rest of the UKers I'm not so sure about), he considered the UK a potential Ally before the war and considered the English to be one of the superior races of the world just below his Ubermensch and well above the Jews and Slavs.

Well he certainly got the English part nearly correct

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by Vendor

On Wednesday 20 July 2011 - the anniversary of the attempt on Hitler's life in 1944 - the public was informed that the grave of Rudolf Hess, the "Fuehrer's deputy", had been razed before daybreak.

Beyond the fascinating coincidence in the date - there will surely be further speculation on this - the decision by Hess's heirs was surprising.

They wanted to commit his mortal remains to the waves and organise a funeral at sea for a man whose mystique and influence on the far-right was strongly linked to the existence of his grave in the Bavarian village of Wunsiedel.

He was already one the most interesting figures in post-war Germany, being the only high-ranking Nazi serving a life sentence imposed by the Nuremberg war-crimes court - Albert Speer, for instance, was released in 1966.

'Anti-German plot'

Hess owes his ambiguous fame to the circumstances of his death. He was found hanged in a summer house in Berlin's Spandau Prison, where he had spent the previous 20 years.

The official version - contested by right-wingers of all stripes - was that he committed suicide to end his long imprisonment.

For the German and international far-right movement, this was clear evidence that the powers that be had tried to suppress the truth about an "anti-German" plot dating back to the war years.

According to this version of events, the Allied forces - notably the British secret service - ignored the true purpose of Hess's flight to Britain in 1941. He was taking a peace plan to Churchill, he told his interrogators.

This idea made Hess the perfect figure to portray the Nazis as victims, rather than aggressors.

Britain had started World War II to destroy Germany, and Hess was captured in Scotland to crush the peaceful intentions of Nazi Germany.

Even the fact that Hitler declared him insane did not dent this legend.

Revitalised myth

Moreover the resurgent Nazi scene in recent years has gradually recognised the potential of this myth to attract young people susceptible to tales of injustice.

What started as a tiny demonstration of a handful of Nazi activists in the 1990s had turned into thousands regularly filling the streets of Wunsiedel by early 2000s.

Everybody who looked at such scenes - including myself and my academic colleagues - felt uncomfortable. Most of the demonstrators were young and dressed like average heavy-metal kids - until you looked at their T-shirts and tattoos.

The Hess myth, modernised to satisfy a desire for victimhood, made the Wundsiedel commemorations alluring to young people. But it also led the Constitutional Court to ban the event in 2005, as the potential for the recruitment of new blood into the Neo-Nazi movement got increasingly obvious.

However the court order had limited effect on such gatherings, which continued less frequently and at a smaller scale elsewhere. But then Hess had become a kind of right-wing Che Guevara, with his portrait on shirts, buttons and posters.

In the end the family agreed to terminate the lease on the grave.

Thus an event that many would have thought highly improbably until now became reality on Wednesday evening. What might be the consequences of this startling decision?

Nazi zombie

Firstly, it is no coincidence that the relatives and officials chose to eliminate every physical trace of a figure with a vast potential for creating right-wing legends.

As was the case for Osama Bin Laden some weeks ago, the authorities understand the power of a permanent shrine to a highly controversial figure.

It becomes a place of pilgrimage, a focus for irrational and uncontrollable worship.

Secondly, the far-right movement has lost a crucial place embodying myths and legends that give it a friendly face. The neo-Nazis desperately need to celebrate the memory of an attractive "hero" for the benefit of new recruits.

And thirdly, there will be an increased potential for violence of all kinds - from street unrest to digital stalking - by the far-right.

Deprived of a leading rallying figure, the movement will feel that its noble tradition has been humiliated by unjust powers yet again.

Ultimately it is possible that a renewed cult could rise again around Hess, the ultimate Nazi zombie.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14244165

Note: Update Record,22 July 2011 Last updated at 00:24 GMT

Hello Vendor,
I do not believe the "myth" [that surrounds Hess] could be destroyed until the truth about Churchill's roll in Hess's outrages treatment and sentence. And the most important
source that needs to be free and open to public scrutiny is the secret service (MI5) files that detail the daily ultra-top secret communication between all branches of the German armed
forces. The most relevant files that need to be examined are the Brit secret archived files that cover the time before the invasion of Russia. This would reveal if there was any interest in what Hess could have revealed about the Russian invasion.
But, these archive files never will be made available because starting in 1942 the ultra-top secret code of the SS was broken and they include the daily
communication between Berlin and 'ALL' concentration camp reports.
And of course this would destroy the myth around the concentration camps
and we sure couldn't have that - now can we?

ZeeWolf

[vienna]

Quote from Hottentot (re: Mien Kampf):

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve
I haven't even read Mein Kampf.

Offtopic, but still: I recommend doing that, if you can find time. It's a fascinating book. People love to talk about Hitler, but not many people for some reason take the opportunity to study his thoughts and backgrounds, even when they are readily available in a convenient book form. It's a great source and can be easily found online too (that's how I found the English quotes for my post).

As an interesting side note, the late Alan Cranston, former U.S. Senator from California, holds the distinction of having been sued by Hitler's book publishers (and by extension, Hitler) for an unauthorized, annotated edition of "Mein Kampf":

Alan Cranston, The US Senator Who Was Sued By Adolf Hitler And Lost

From an interview shortly before his death in 2000, the four-term Democratic Senator from California recounted his experience as a young foreign correspondent in the 1930's:

While I was doing my foreign correspondence work, I read Adolph Hitler's Mein Kampf, the book he wrote while he was in prison before he became the dictator, outlining his plans for Germany and the terrible things he intended to do in the world. There was no English language version of it. When I quit journalism and came back to try to get involved in activities in the United States, one day in Macy's bookstore in New York I saw a display of Mein Kampf, an English language version, which I'd never seen before, which hadn't existed. I went over to look at it out of curiosity and as I picked it up, I knew it wasn't the real book. It was much thinner than the long book that I had read, which is about 350,000 words. So I bought it to see how come. And delving into it I found that it was a condensed version, and some of the things that would most upset Americans just weren't there as they were in the version I had read, the original, in German.
So I talked to an editor friend of mine in New York, a Hearst editor named Amster Spiro, and suggested that I write and we publish an anti-Nazi version of Mein Kampf that would be the real book and would awaken Americans to the peril Hitler posed for us and the rest of the world. So we did that. I spent eight days [compiling] my version of Mein Kampf from the English language version that I now had, the original German language version, and another copy that had just appeared. A book was then selling for around three dollars normal price. Hitler was getting forty cents royalty for each copy that somebody bought that wasn't [even] the real thing. We proceeded to print in tabloid the version that I wrote, with a very lurid red cover showing Hitler carving up the world, and we sold it for ten cents on newsstands. It created quite a stir. Some Nazis went around knocking down newsstands that displayed it in St. Louis and the German part of New York and elsewhere in the country. We sold half a million copies in ten days and were immediately sued by Hitler's agents on the grounds we had violated his copyright, which we had done. We had the theory that [though] he had copyrighted Mein Kampf in Austria, he had destroyed Austria with his army, so we said he destroyed his copyright at the same time. Well, that didn't stand up in court, and a Connecticut judge ruled in Hitler's favor. No damages were assessed, but we had to stop selling the book. We got what was called an injunction. But we did wake up a lot of Americans to the Nazi threat.

Source:

http://www.tommcmahon.net/2008/01/alan-cranston-t.html

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by vienna

Quote from Hottentot (re: Mien Kampf):

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve
I haven't even read Mein Kampf.



As an interesting side note, the late Alan Cranston, former U.S. Senator from Claifornia, holds the distinction of having been sued by Hitler's book ublishers (and by extension, Hitler) for an unauthorized, annotated edition of "Mein Kampf":

Alan Cranston, The US Senator Who Was Sued By Adolf Hitler And Lost

From an interview shortly before his death in 2000, the four-term Democratic Senator from California recounted his experience as a young foreign correspondent in the 1930's:

While I was doing my foreign correspondence work, I read Adolph Hitler's Mein Kampf, the book he wrote while he was in prison before he became the dictator, outlining his plans for Germany and the terrible things he intended to do in the world. There was no English language version of it. When I quit journalism and came back to try to get involved in activities in the United States, one day in Macy's bookstore in New York I saw a display of Mein Kampf, an English language version, which I'd never seen before, which hadn't existed. I went over to look at it out of curiosity and as I picked it up, I knew it wasn't the real book. It was much thinner than the long book that I had read, which is about 350,000 words. So I bought it to see how come. And delving into it I found that it was a condensed version, and some of the things that would most upset Americans just weren't there as they were in the version I had read, the original, in German.
So I talked to an editor friend of mine in New York, a Hearst editor named Amster Spiro, and suggested that I write and we publish an anti-Nazi version of Mein Kampf that would be the real book and would awaken Americans to the peril Hitler posed for us and the rest of the world. So we did that. I spent eight days [compiling] my version of Mein Kampf from the English language version that I now had, the original German language version, and another copy that had just appeared. A book was then selling for around three dollars normal price. Hitler was getting forty cents royalty for each copy that somebody bought that wasn't [even] the real thing. We proceeded to print in tabloid the version that I wrote, with a very lurid red cover showing Hitler carving up the world, and we sold it for ten cents on newsstands. It created quite a stir. Some Nazis went around knocking down newsstands that displayed it in St. Louis and the German part of New York and elsewhere in the country. We sold half a million copies in ten days and were immediately sued by Hitler's agents on the grounds we had violated his copyright, which we had done. We had the theory that [though] he had copyrighted Mein Kampf in Austria, he had destroyed Austria with his army, so we said he destroyed his copyright at the same time. Well, that didn't stand up in court, and a Connecticut judge ruled in Hitler's favor. No damages were assessed, but we had to stop selling the book. We got what was called an injunction. But we did wake up a lot of Americans to the Nazi threat.

Source:

http://www.tommcmahon.net/2008/01/alan-cranston-t.html

Wow, a commie sued for what communists do best - lie and make up lies.
Now you know why all major publishers must be owned by those who support patriots like Cranston.

ZeeWolf

[MH]

Possibly interesting read for some or Jewish/communist/capitalists propaganda for others.
http://www.hdot.org/en/struggle

Bw
I have seen the link posted here to Irving lecture.
Its a history lesson for dummies.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by vienna

As an interesting side note, the late Alan Cranston, former U.S. Senator from Claifornia, holds the distinction of having been sued by Hitler's book ublishers (and by extension, Hitler) for an unauthorized, annotated edition of "Mein Kampf":

Indeed, very interesting, never heard of this story yet.

What I find somehow strange is that the holocaust denial fan club, who see the handwriting of the jews on any paper written, does not question the legitimacy of "Mein Kampf". Is this one of the few documents that was not not forged by the Juice?
I bet however, that there are people out there who claim this book is commiejewish propaganda to paint the Nazis in a bad light, and not as those smart, gentle, humanitarian truth-checkers as they are in reality. Something like the elders of Braunau.

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by MH

Possibly interesting read for some or Jewish/communist/capitalists propaganda for others.
http://www.hdot.org/en/struggle

Bw
I have seen the link posted here to Irving lecture.
Its a history lesson for dummies.

I check out your link and clicked the "Holocaust Denial" link and read:
"The Holocaust is one of the most thoroughly researched periods of history."
A total lie on it's face. The death and resurrection of Christ is perhaps No1,
but I must say the selling of the false guilt caused by the "Holocaust" industry
possibly equals or maybe surpasses the (very profitable) porn industry.
However I must say it does help our wonderful little ally in the middle east though.

Yes , I agree whole heatedly that the Irving lecture is for dummies - like
me, before I watched the video and LISTENED to what he had to say.

Peace!

ZeeWolf

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

I check out your link and clicked the "Holocaust Denial" link and read:
"The Holocaust is one of the most thoroughly researched periods of history."
A total lie on it's face.

Why is that so? I thought the brilliant revisionist scientists do research this period? If they revealed the myth of the Holocaust they must have done some thorough research, don't they?

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

The death and resurrection of Christ is perhaps No1,
but I must say the selling of the false guilt caused by the "Holocaust" industry
possibly equals or maybe surpasses the (very profitable) porn industry.
though.

Sorry, I am just a dumb Aryan from Germany. I don't understand what you mean by the first sentence. Is Jesus' death also a lie? Or do you mean that this story (also) results in guilt and/or profit?

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Peace!

ZeeWolf

Shalom!
Penguin

[August]

I hate nazis.

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Sorry, I am just a dumb Aryan from Germany. I don't understand what you mean by the first sentence. Is Jesus' death also a lie? Or do you mean that this story (also) results in guilt and/or profit?

Shalom!
Penguin

That's ok Penguin, no need to fell guilt over that too, just read it over again real slow or as many times as it takes to understand

Shalom!

ZeeWolf

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

That's ok Penguin, no need to fell guilt over that too, just read it over again real slow or as many times as it takes to understand

Shalom!

ZeeWolf

That's why I asked to elaborate, as your sentence is somehow confusing. I had a guess that you mean the sale of false guilt by the church, but your capitalizing of Christ doesn't fit in this.
How can one understand you if you do neither explain your point nor answer a question about it?

Anyway, nice that you worry about my guilt - but sadly you know **** about it - as I only feel guilty for things that I regret and of which I am personal responsible for.

Salam!
Penguin

[MH]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

However I must say it does help our wonderful little ally in the middle east though.

Interesting that you feel that way-cant figure out why though.
Look on the bright side Holocaust is a good reason for existence of this little allay in ME.
You don't want another bunch of obnoxious god dammed Jews in your living space.
Finely some of us ****ed off where we belong.

[NeonSamurai]

This site is good for detailed holocaust information and evidence (including archeological evidence), and thorough systematic rebuttals of the crap posted by the zombie, conspiracy_theory.

www.nizkor.org

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by Penguin

That's why I asked to elaborate, as your sentence is somehow confusing. I had a guess that you mean the sale of false guilt by the church, but your capitalizing of Christ doesn't fit in this.
How can one understand you if you do neither explain your point nor answer a question about it?

Anyway, nice that you worry about my guilt - but sadly you know **** about it - as I only feel guilty for things that I regret and of which I am personal responsible for.

Salam!
Penguin

After saying **** it sounds like maybe your "Salam!" isn't all that sincere
What's really bothering you kamerad?

ZeeWolf

[vienna]

I decided to try and find the Cranston annotations to "Mein Kampf" but have so far been unsuccessful. I did, however find this site:

http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Mein_Kampf

It has some rather interesting history and information regarding the book.