Is the sim genre dead?

[Trevally.]

I think the PC will die and this will happen when consoles evolve and become upgradable, just like a PC.

Then someone will say " hey we should create a console"

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by JScones

You know, whilst I agree 100%, I can't help but think that had anyone else made the same post, there'd be at least five "you're wrong" (and one "your wrong") posts made by now.

Just a random observation.

About as 'random' as a 'random' airport security check on vagually middle-eastern looking guy.

[Arclight]

Not strictly sims related, but we strayed from that anyway.

PC Gaming Is Having a Great Year, Are You Enjoying It?

StarCraft II, Napoleon: Total War, Battlefield: Bad Company 2, Mass Effect 2: Love it or hate it, PC gaming seems to be having a great year.

And that's just what has already hit, if you're a PC gamer you've got quite a glut of games to look forward to for the rest of the year. Here's the short list: Civilization V, R.U.S.E, Dead Rising 2, Medal of Honor, Fallout: New Vegas, Fable III, LEGO Universe and Call of Duty: Black Ops

[THE_MASK]

I reckon SH5 has at least 5 years of modding left in it , the mods so far havnt even scratched the surface . So SH5 will go for at least 5 years .

[SteelViking]

Originally Posted by sober

I reckon SH5 has at least 5 years of modding left in it , the mods so far havnt even scratched the surface . So SH5 will go for at least 5 years .

I have to agree. Remember everyone, SHIII and IV had tools built specifically for them(S3D). SH5 is just barely starting to get some tools made for it(a big thanks to privateer and Skwas). So yeah, the modding has really just begun.

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by Arclight

Piracy is a bigger factor on PC because it's easier. If PC gaming would disappear, piracy would just become as big a problem on consoles.

Ayuh. There is nothing on the shelves or on the net that is 100% immune to being pirated. If it is available, somebody will want it for free and somebody will find a way to provide it for free. What is almost as bad is when there are companies who proclaim to the world that their almighty new protections are unbreakable. They seem to have forgotten about the Titanic and how unsinkable she was. *whoops!* We silly humans and our fruitless quest for invincibility.


It was mentioned on the previous page also that PC's do a lot more than just run games... that was the gist of what I picked up on anyway. Indeed. How often do you see a supercluster of gaming consoles crunching data for the USGS? The PC can do a lot more than just run games... it can do a heck of a lot more than a gaming console. It is here to stay for now.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by SteelViking

I have to agree. Remember everyone, SHIII and IV had tools built specifically for them(S3D). SH5 is just barely starting to get some tools made for it(a big thanks to privateer and Skwas). So yeah, the modding has really just begun.

Erm, what about the tools that shipped with SH5 that are meant to be specifically for it? Neither SH3 or SH4 had that benefit "out of the box".

[jctrnacty]

The problem of sim genre is not that its hardcore but problem is not sufficient tutorials and explanation of "how does this work and why should i press this"

If every sim would have an interractive step by step tutorial for complete noobs then there could be a lot of simmers today.

Nobody today has enough time to read 250 pages manual a spend one week to try find out what does what.

This is the main reason that kills hardcore sims.

Hardcore sim - no tutorial - dead sim

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by jctrnacty

The problem of sim genre is not that its hardcore but problem is not sufficient tutorials and explanation of "how does this work and why should i press this"

If every sim would have an interractive step by step tutorial for complete noobs then there could be a lot of simmers today.

Nobody today has enough time to read 250 pages manual a spend one week to try find out what does what.

This is the main reason that kills hardcore sims.

Hardcore sim - no tutorial - dead sim

I have the time (even with working 2 jobs and a BAD golf addiction ) to read 250 pgs of manual and spending a MONTH playing/testing/figuring out how things work. In fact one of my FAVORITE add-on planes for MS Flightsim 2004 and FSX is a ATR-42 add on that is so realistic I printed out the manual for it and it takes TWO 3" binders

And the addon was so realistic that the startup procedures (and flight) are JUST LIKE THE REAL THING. I know this because I was a mechanic on them for 3 yrs (hence the screen name faamecanic).

With that said.....Another point to make is the makers of this ATR-42 (as well as MANY other add on aircraft) make HIGH QUALITY airplanes, that are VERY realistic, for $50 or less.....

What this proves is the argument that a niche market can never have high quality sims because it is too cost prohibitive..... I say Bull Excrement to statement.

If your a MS flight sim nut...check out the niche market being satisfied here (everything from Cessna 182's, or a FULL world of REAL airline traffic, all the way up to a FULL detailed 747)

http://www.flight1.com/

Then come back here and tell me how a niche market can never be satisfied without programs costing $1,000's of dollars.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by JScones

Erm, what about the tools that shipped with SH5 that are meant to be specifically for it? Neither SH3 or SH4 had that benefit "out of the box".

I'll give the UI editor the bennfit of the doubt since i know very little of that stuff, but i' will say that the goblin editor sucks the big one when compared to S3D. It's good as a basic controller editor, but not much beyond that from what i could make of it.

Using the goblin editor is like being asked to pop rivet sheet metal together without the bennfit of a drill. Unless the holes are already there, you can't do anything with it. S3D, on the other hand, is a versatile as a skill saw is on a construction site. Can do most anything with it.

Gentlemen, I am a new member of the subsim community, although I play SH III since 2007, and after I've discovered GWX, I think that SH III has finally become playable. Regarding SH5, it was a disappointment for me, because I've hoped they will not make the same mistakes they made in the previous titles of the series. But one thing surprised me here as well: Why there is such a large amount of people that are calling SH series "sub-SIMULATOR"? Because none of the titles of the series are simulators, in my opinion. DCS: Black Shark - Ka50 (Russian attack helicopter simulator) can be called a simulator, with almost hundreds of key combination to issue commands, with a manual consisting of a few hundreds pages of reliable accurate technical information, a simulator-game when you must do at least five things only to start the engine of the rotors. So that's why I don't understand why there are some people that put SH series (nice, relaxing hybrid type games, but only with all the mods that people are making) in the "simulator" category, because I have the feeling that SH series are simulators exactly in the way I am the Pope. And I am definitely not.
I don't know, but I think that the owner of this forum and the moderators knows what a simulation game is and that they may instruct the newbies around here in making the difference between a RPG-Arcade game (SH5) and a simulator one (Aces Of The Deep). Considering SH5 a simulator game and seeing the game as one can cause a lot of disappointment for the simulators fan base.

[Arclight]

Depends on your perspective. If you take stuff like the Battlestations games into account (Midway, Pacific), you'll see SH is closer to a sim then an arcade game. Much closer.

Originally Posted by Arclight

Depends on your perspective. If you take stuff like the Battlestations games into account (Midway, Pacific), you'll see SH is closer to a sim then an arcade game. Much closer.

Yes, you're right from this point of view, but I tend to compare a game that is viewed like a simulator (SH series) to real simulator games, for hardcore fans, like Black Shark (regarding combat simulators) or Microsoft Flight Simulator X (regarding no-combat simulators), that's why I see the latest UBI release like a RPG-Arcade game, and from what I've read on this forum, it seems that I am not the only one.

[Arclight]

It's no more arcade than the previous games (unmodded), but let's leave that aside.

I agree DCS is "more of a sim", but it simulates something completely different. You're the pilot and have to fly alone, so you have to take care of everything. In SH, you're the captain. Captains don't run about the boat turning handles and wheels, or fiddling with torpedo-controls.

As a sim about being a WWII submarine captain, Silent Hunter does a decent job. Sure, they could model every little valve, but that's not the aim of the game.

Originally Posted by Arclight

It's no more arcade than the previous games (unmodded), but let's leave that aside.

I agree DCS is "more of a sim", but it simulates something completely different. You're the pilot and have to fly alone, so you have to take care of everything. In SH, you're the captain. Captains don't run about the boat turning handles and wheels, or fiddling with torpedo-controls.

As a sim about being a WWII submarine captain, Silent Hunter does a decent job. Sure, they could model every little valve, but that's not the aim of the game.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy SH III - GWX 3.0 a lot, and even SH4 - TMO 1.9, I was just emphasis two facts:
1. From my point of view, none of the SH series title is a "real" simulator game, even if you say that the captain doesn't need to push all the buttons, I still think they could have done a much better job (as a stock game, I mean), like having a round Earth instead of a plane one, real physics environment interaction and not in the last place, I think they could have done the game less buggy.
2. My expectancies regarding SH5 were higher than the results. After some experience in this area, I've hoped that the publishers would not release a game in such a buggy and incomplete state. I hope that someday there will be a supermod (something like the one GWX team made) that will made the game playable, but I won't bet this will happen. The thing that there are modders out here working on it it's good, but having all those little mods, some of them probably incompatible with each other, is not the best thing possible, but I don't know, it may be a promising start. Only time will tell if somebody will be able to put up a team that will "unite" all the "individual" mods.