Muhammad's ball, or: what Islam has done to the French National Team

[Skybird]

@ Angus,

You tolerate what/who is not tolerating you, that is the shortest summary of your way or arguing, and you pose with intentional naivety, to make it all look harmless and reasonably easy to solve (I just think of your naivety regarding enforcing the laws). But that is not reasonable of you at all. It simply is: evasion in an attempt of not wanting to fight in self-defence.

The more these developements strip you/us off guaranteed rights and freedoms you take for granted and whose reasons for existing you never seem to have reflected, and install more and more special interests demanded in the name of the religion of peace or that oh so precious foreign culture of theirs, the more you will defend the perpetrator and declare it to be our own fault that he is showing off so very much as a global Herrenkultur, and you will bow to him in an effort to avoid conflict and confrontation over defending these our freedoms and rights the generations before us have earned and suffered for so very dearly. In the end you erode and finally ultimately destroy your/our own cultural identity, and favour theirs over yours. and you do not even ask if theirs is indeed so verymuch more precious and valuable than ours. Not to mention that this place we call "home" is our place, not theirs.

and within the next generation's timespan, you will maybe realise what you carelessly have given away in freedoms and rights, over fears of needing to fight for these freedoms and rights - and then you will see that it is too late and that you have lost it, forever.

Some thigns are worth to fight for. Our ancestors understood that, else we would not be here, at least not in such a free world we enjoy to live in. This is true for a german saying so, but it is true for all europe. Nowadays, after almost 80 years of peace in europe have caused havoc on our sense for realism and our ability to recognise harsh realities, we have lost the ability to defend ourselves, our identities, our self-definition, our rights and freedoms. Our cultural degeneration, our decadence, reveals itself not so much in our lacking fighting skill, but in our lack of willingness to defend ourselves, in our display of not wanting to defend ourselves, and our lacking ability to even recognise the need of defence. we crucify ourselves over concerns about laws and bureaucratic procedures, and we care so very much for foreign people's sentiments who care little about what their behavior do to our sentiments. And, like you, we accept to actively prevent any form of self-definition, since that would mean not only to say what we are, but also would mean the need to also say what we are not, and do not want to be. We care so much about our plethora of concerns and laws and we fear so much to offend others and not being of sufficient obedience to their demands for us to adapt to them - and by doing so, we sentence ourselves to paralysis, and passivity while the threats are mounting.

The West is not the first historic power faction amongst history's known empries that gave up on themselves in exactly this manner. Our history books know it. We refuse to learn the lessons.

I do not know and do not care whether you are a tpyical left, or not. But on the left, I also say this in general: the left wants to destroy the Westenr constitutional orders. It must want to do so, because in the end the establishement of a socialistic if not even communistic dictatorship is their ultimate goal. This is only possible by destroying the currently established constitutional orders. Islamic mass migration seem to be a ntural ally, therefore, and this alliance you see being practiced in every european country. In Germany, we hear this ultimate goal of destroying democracy and establishing a communist dictatorship (spiced up with romantic memories of nicetalking the SED tyranny and sometimes even the StaSi) not even being hidden by representatives of the party Die Linke. Many of them speak it out plain and directly. what these clever left forethinkers do not understand, is this: for islam'S global quest for dominance, socialistic ideas are just - worth nothing, like Erdoghan talked of democracy as a train that you leave once you have reached your real destination, socialism/communism will be kicked by Islamic alliances once they do not need it anymore. The left very likely can end up like the ended up in the iranian revolution when they helped Khomenei to topple the Shah - dangling from lightmasts and telephone poles.

[Skybird]

I just realised how insulting the first two words in my thread title could be for Muslims. Not intended and not even realised until now - but now a laugh that is even louder.

Some thigns are worth to fight for. Our ancestors understood that, else we would not be here

But your ancestors were the ones who were fighting the Jewish horde who were going to take over the world, so now you feel a need to fight the Muslim horde who are taking over the world.

Our cultural degeneration, our decadence,

My struggle(1925)

[onelifecrisis]

Heh, I see Skybird is still grinding his axe.

But on the left, I also say this in general: the left wants to destroy the Westenr constitutional orders. It must want to do so, because in the end the establishement of a socialistic if not even communistic dictatorship is their ultimate goal.

Wow. Just... wow.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

Wow. Just... wow.

Well, over here "Die Linke" the German left party is under surveillance by the "Verfassungsschutz", that could be translated into "constitution protection" for these very reasons Skybird posted.
I don't know much about the left in the UK but here it seems to me as if they wanted to reintroduce the system of the former DDR and that is impossible with our current constitution. Maybe it is different in your country but over here I see them as as much a threat as the far right (who are under surveillance too btw. and rightfully so).

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Well, over here "Die Linke" the German left party is under surveillance by the "Verfassungsschutz", that could be translated into "constitution protection" for these very reasons Skybird posted.
I don't know much about the left in the UK but here it seems to me as if they wanted to reintroduce the system of the former DDR and that is impossible with our current constitution. Maybe it is different in your country but over here I see them as as much a threat as the far right (who are under surveillance too btw. and rightfully so).

Ahhh... my bad I suppose. Wikipedia to the rescue! I thought he meant "the left" not "The Left". Thanks for clearing it up.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Skybird

@ Angus,


Some thigns are worth to fight for. Our ancestors understood that, else we would not be here, at least not in such a free world we enjoy to live in. This is true for a german saying so, but it is true for all europe. Nowadays, after almost 80 years of peace in europe have caused havoc on our sense for realism and our ability to recognise harsh realities, we have lost the ability to defend ourselves, our identities, our self-definition, our rights and freedoms. Our cultural degeneration, our decadence, reveals itself not so much in our lacking fighting skill, but in our lack of willingness to defend ourselves, in our display of not wanting to defend ourselves, and our lacking ability to even recognise the need of defence. we crucify ourselves over concerns about laws and bureaucratic procedures, and we care so very much for foreign people's sentiments who care little about what their behavior do to our sentiments. And, like you, we accept to actively prevent any form of self-definition, since that would mean not only to say what we are, but also would mean the need to also say what we are not, and do not want to be. We care so much about our plethora of concerns and laws and we fear so much to offend others and not being of sufficient obedience to their demands for us to adapt to them - and by doing so, we sentence ourselves to paralysis, and passivity while the threats are mounting.

:s alute:

exactly....

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

the "Verfassungsschutz", that could be translated into "constitution protection"

The "Office for the Protection of the Constitution" could be seen as a mixture of the fields of responsibility of the FBI, NSA and Secret Service. It is a intelligence service that operates on a national level only, with special focus to all sorts of activities that qualify as politically motivated violence or political crime, terrorism, threats to the constitutional poliltical order of the country and the 16 federal states, and threats to persons of poltical interest or rank. there is one nation-wide bureau and 16 federal bureaus, one per each federal state.

The BVS does not operate internationally. Outside Germany, Germany's major intelligence service is the Bundesnachrichtendienst BND, it compares to the CIA.

Additionally there is the Bundeskriminalamt BKA, in responsibility and authority it compares to the FBI.

A separate equivalent to the NSA Germany does not have, as I understand it. Elint missions are done by the BND, and the military weapon branches.

[Penguin]

I think regarding this interesting subject, the over-generalisation in this thread does not really help the debate. People stick to their prefab opinions and try to put anything into a left-right sceme. However I think most of the points made in this thread are not based on xenophobia, but on opinions which are based on experiences.

Originally Posted by Skybird

....Yesterday, activists from the left scene attacked a house were Arab immigrants that - rarely enough - tried to express some sympathy with their new home nation by hanging out a german flag from the window, the house was set on fire, anonymous spokesmen claimed that the left cpuld not tolerate such blatant displays of "Germanism" in Germany. ....

wrong, check your facts.
When I first read this, i was shocked that people were tried to be burned - which is arson to a residential house. All sources say that the flag was only taken off. Quite a difference to a murder attempt!

Originally Posted by Snestorm

The map looks like a left-winger's dream come true.

I don't know any left-wingers who would like to live in an islamic republic. Check what Iran does with with political opposition from the left (basically what it does to any people who have a different opinion.)

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Thats easy
Well for starters not all Israelis are Jewish and not all Jews are Israelis, so Israel is just a country with its own individual policies and actions.

Israel was founded as a sanctuary for the Jewish people. Historical comparible only with the foundation of Liberia (granted not the best example). While your first sentence is true, I think you cannot compare Israel to other countries in the world. Does it mean you can't critize it? Hell, no! Does it mean Israels right of existance must be defended? Hell yes!

Originally Posted by AngusJS

And could environment and class be a factor in explaining the minority crime rate?

of course it does to an extent, but unlike Marx said, who claimed that you are formed by your environment, you have the chance to form your environment. Like Schroeder said: certain people just complain and do nothing to change their situation, while others, who come here with virtually nothing, just start to build up their own existance and put in some effort to change their situation.

Originally Posted by Skybird

@ Angus,
.... the left wants to destroy the Westenr constitutional orders

oh please. There are many laws who would not be there, if people (not only) from the left wouldn't have fought and died for. For example Social equality, Seperation of state and church, workers rights. Look at German's special "Right of Resistance" against anyone who want to change fundamental parts of the Constitution, like freedom of Speech, Freedom of Press, etc.

Certainly there are enough idiots in the left, Orwell's describtion of them in "The Road to Wigan Pier" is still one of the best and still up-to-date.

I agree with you that these are freedoms we should not take for granted and it is worth fighting against anyone who want to turn the wheel of history backwards, no matter whetther they come from the religious, left, right, yellow, blue or whatever side.

I could care less about German culture, as it is been said, culture is nothing static, but there are values which are not open for debate, some call them "Western values", some call them "universial human rights" - you get the idea.

How can we change these problems? Well, I would be a rich man, if I had the sollution. Some ideas:
1. Treating people really equally means you treat ANY cultural and religios as the same and no one gets a special bonus. "Oh you had a bad youth? ok, you get a slap on the hand for armed robbery..."
2. Defending the rights of a free and open society. No matter if morons from the government use fear or religous zealots or political idiots use intimidation to take away rights. No way!
3. Education. When asking a friend of mine, who was a violent adolescent migrant, what would be the solution to the problems we have with the youth he answereded right this: Education! Without getting interested into science and books he would be dead or in prison right now.


(...says Penguin, who does not speak for anbody but himself)

Does it mean you can't critize it? Hell, no! Does it mean Israels right of existance must be defended? Hell yes!

And the problem is that some people say that any criticism of Israel is wrong and that Israel itself can do no wrong.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

And the problem is that some people say that any criticism of Israel is wrong and that Israel itself can do no wrong.

Israel can do "wrong" and the endless criticism of what we do here can actually lead to this.
Israelis are getting tired of the endless criticism of any thing that is done here so why not start kicking asses for real?
I mean really defend our selves-screw the moaning world politicians.

Israel can do "wrong" and the endless criticism of what we do here can actually lead to this.

That sounds like the actions of a petulant child.

Israelis are getting tired of the endless criticism of any thing that is done here so why not start kicking asses for real?

Firstly because the IDF ain't what it was so its real ass kicking days have been over for nearly 30 years. Secondly it needs lots of help to survive as a state. Besides which the real criticism which is the only criticism that matters only comes when Israel does something incredibly dumb.

I mean really defend our selves-screw the moaning world politicians.

Because when you screw the world politicians you lose more and more of that help you need to survive.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

That sounds like the actions of a petulant child.
.

It is isnt it?
The educational system needs recheck?

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Firstly because the IDF ain't what it was so its real ass kicking days have been over for nearly 30 years.
.

That can be another 1000 post topic but yes some countries in ME are closing the gaps slowly.
Every one here realizes that another war will not be six day war again but IDF still can deal very well with current threats if given free hand.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Secondly it needs lots of help to survive as a state. Besides which the real criticism which is the only criticism that matters only comes when Israel does something incredibly dumb.
Because when you screw the world politicians you lose more and more of that help you need to survive.

Yes Israel needs help to survive but the question is if it can survive for long or what quality of live we may have -i mean with all the help.

What was this thread about anyway?
Mohamed's balls or something

[MH]

Jeff Dunham - Achmed the Dead Terrorist

What was this thread about anyway?
Mohamed's balls or something

It was about some nonsense sky found on a loony blog about blacks and muslims causing the French soccer team to be rubbish