Almost Fifi's modlist - 100 tries and 100 CTD

[gap]

Originally Posted by test_m4a1

So shouldnt i use this mod for renown points? Is it gonna mess things up with files?

Going by its readme file, it should go well with EUF's 1.4 patch fix, but it is not compatible with sober's upgrades available by date patch. Whichever of them you are enabling last, will overwrite the other, thus making it useless

Originally Posted by test_m4a1

Ill be glad to see some advices from You about this modlist

If it is based on Fifi's mod list, it should be okay. The more strictly it follows it, the better. I just want to understand where your problem with R.S.D. is coming from.

[test_m4a1]

What a pitty, it looked for a veru usefull mod

I just hope its the last problem in my modlist!

If You guys dont see any other problem or You dont have any suggestions more i tihnk its gonna stay like this

@Gap

Do You recomend to delete Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_v1_4_Patch_1 (available by date) V9 by sober and replace it with mod of 0 renown points?

I dont really know why is it crashing... but tell me, are You using this mod too? I mean RSD

[gap]

Originally Posted by test_m4a1

@Gap

Do You recomend to delete Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_v1_4_Patch_1 (available by date) V9 by sober and replace it with mod of 0 renown points?

It depends on personal taste. Personally I like the renown system and upgrades getting available gradually, so I would go for sober's mod. With little patience you could as well remove renown costs from the latter.

Originally Posted by test_m4a1

I dont really know why is it crashing... but tell me, are You using this mod too? I mean RSD

No, I don't actually run the game since when I was working on the JU_88's B-25 (this summer). I was going to give it a try today for making some adjustement to its menu layouts, but then I started working on the FXU patch which is probably more urgent

[Bathrone]

Originally Posted by plj

I believe nothing unless it can be proven ... so I certainly wont expect any different of others

I cant really find the context in which he made that remark in the 5 mins I tried to dearch, and am about to play dad .. but I'll look later.

Seriously tho .. recommend me a list that should not be able to start on my rig based on that comment .. I'd like to test that theory. It would honestly be the first situation I ever encountered where a lack of video memory results in anything else but horribly low framerate. It would also be the first out of memory CTD that would hide behind shcollision.act or other .act files I ever heard of. I'm open to that possability, but I'd like to confirm it first...

Mate as I said I already have, and others have too, measured the telemetry data. Your speculations and guesses that this is impossible for a 2010 game to use around 2GB of GPU RAM is absurd when its been repeatedly measured. I like you and the majority of posts you make are insightful so Im trying to explain to you what I previously said.

Use my test mod list I provided in the diagnose freezing thread I started as a sample reference. There I use 2GB of texture ram in the GPU, its a measured fact. Yes some of that is caching but its still well over your 512 MB limit for direct z buffer textures in the scene that have to be in the scene for the render to work.

I'll try to explain another way. This is a 32 bit directx 9 app. It cant offload 2GB worth of textures to system ram because of 32 bit memory allocation limitations where the game code needs to use system ram for real system work not for a poor mans texture solution. And, worse still even if the app could do that which it cant but for the sake of argument, it would be horribly slow because of the latency between the system ram and the GPU processing.

So the textures have to reside in the GPU RAM just like almost every other directx 9 app around (there are exceptions but sh5 isnt one of them). The app is already RAM constrained in system memory to run the game as its limited to 32 bit memory allocation.

When the z buffer of the render tries to cull what textures arent needed, and it faces the problem of a bad memory allocation for the texture data on the GPU that must be in the scene, the GPU driver will say so that there is a bad memory allocation and SH5 then abends throwing a halt code to the system kernel to shut down the app.

In real time rendering this is unavoidable (because otherwise no render could occur due to the corruption of GPU RAM) and is why recent aaa titles have 64 bit compiles amongst other things.

Its not a theory its a fact. I do fully understand and applaud that youve noted other ways CTDs can occur, but no one here is trying to mislead you or waste your time.

[plj]

Originally Posted by Bathrone

Mate as I said I already have, and others have too, measured the telemetry data. Your speculations and guesses that this is impossible for a 2010 game to use around 2GB of GPU RAM is absurd when its been repeatedly measured. I like you and the majority of posts you make are insightful so Im trying to explain to you what I previously said.

Use my test mod list I provided in the diagnose freezing thread I started as a sample reference. There I use 2GB of texture ram in the GPU, its a measured fact. Yes some of that is caching but its still well over your 512 MB limit for direct z buffer textures in the scene that have to be in the scene for the render to work.

I'll try to explain another way. This is a 32 bit directx 9 app. It cant offload 2GB worth of textures to system ram because of 32 bit memory allocation limitations where the game code needs to use system ram for real system work not for a poor mans texture solution. And, worse still even if the app could do that which it cant but for the sake of argument, it would be horribly slow because of the latency between the system ram and the GPU processing.

So the textures have to reside in the GPU RAM just like almost every other directx 9 app around (there are exceptions but sh5 isnt one of them). The app is already RAM constrained in system memory to run the game as its limited to 32 bit memory allocation.

When the z buffer of the render tries to cull what textures arent needed, and it faces the problem of a bad memory allocation for the texture data on the GPU that must be in the scene, the GPU driver will say so that there is a bad memory allocation and SH5 then abends throwing a halt code to the system kernel to shut down the app.

In real time rendering this is unavoidable (because otherwise no render could occur due to the corruption of GPU RAM) and is why recent aaa titles have 64 bit compiles amongst other things.

Its not a theory its a fact. I do fully understand and applaud that youve noted other ways CTDs can occur, but no one here is trying to mislead you or waste your time.

I was affraid I'm wasting your time, not the other way around ... I am very well aware that I'm a sh5 n00b and have little insight into how this game works ... or doesnt.

How come the CTD's are obfuscated as if they have something to do with SHCollision.act or one of the other (patched) .act files ?

How come I cant find a trace of this supposed low memory situation ? Not in my eventlog, not in my game log, nowhere.

Also, I did not say that sh5 has no issues regarding low memory, I just stated that the CTD's I have, and the CTD's that get reported that I have been able to replicate, dont show the signs of a low memory crash. I also stated that sh5 would be the first game to CTD on me due to low memory, instead of just get unplayable slow.

Lastly, the fact that I experience system freezes on a system that is stable as can be, screams 'illegal operation', not 'low memory'. (as the later would be prompted by windows ..with suggestions to kill Aero and such)


I'm sorry if I come across as being too stupid to listen properly .. I honestly try to understand this .. but have difficulties attaching logic to it. Also, thanks for the patience you have with stubborn me

[Bathrone]

Originally Posted by plj

How come the CTD's are obfuscated as if they have something to do with SHCollision.act or one of the other (patched) .act files ?

How come I cant find a trace of this supposed low memory situation ? Not in my eventlog, not in my game log, nowhere.

Also, I did not say that sh5 has no issues regarding low memory, I just stated that the CTD's I have, and the CTD's that get reported that I have been able to replicate, dont show the signs of a low memory crash. I also stated that sh5 would be the first game to CTD on me due to low memory, instead of just get unplayable slow.

Lastly, the fact that I experience system freezes on a system that is stable as can be, screams 'illegal operation', not 'low memory'. (as the later would be prompted by windows ..with suggestions to kill Aero and such)


I'm sorry if I come across as being too stupid to listen properly .. I honestly try to understand this .. but have difficulties attaching logic to it. Also, thanks for the patience you have with stubborn me

Hi mate. I think you are asking very good question and I have no feeling its stupid questions in your latest post, on the contrary I can see there is real thought going into them.

On your first question I dont know why this happens. Sometimes the debug messages will be helpful othertimes it will CTD and wont provide anything of use to hint at the problem. Since I dont know the exact conditions in which your experiencing issues with SHcollision.act I cant comment on it its a GPU RAM issue or something else. What I can say is that there is multiple reasons why CTDs occur.

On your second question I can speak to NVIDIA drivers in detail and with AMD Im not as close to that. NVIDIA wont write to the event log for a number of conditions where it will tell the app the runtime is borked and the kernel needs to kill the process. One of those is GPU memory allocation errors as experienced in the case were talking about. SH5 does not maintain a sanity system for GPU memory allocation. This is why your not seeing traces of it but you can see it if you start to monitor GPU utilisation and add mods to exceed your allowed limit, you will see the CTD. Ive done this many times.

On your third statement I applaud your contributions to other causes of CTDs and I encourage you to continue contributing. At the moment I'm working on my mod list and supporting documentation. We all give something. This is a community effort. I get so much joy from the modded game, and the stock game was so limited and wrong, to think what people have done for no charge to fix Ubisofts errors just amazes me. People like Trevally, Gap, Sober, I look up to those blokes as they know the game and have done so much for us. When my kid has gone to sleep and the wife is watching TV, after a stressful day of work its so relaxing to be involved in SH5. I hope you too can see whats in my heart and experience it yourself. I know I annoyed Gap with some of my questions in the past, but its all good, fundamentally people who want to help out are welcome and needed. We need you, we need to move SH5 forward. And Im having another beer cos unlike sober, I deserve three beers on a Wednesday night

[gap]

Originally Posted by Bathrone

I know I annoyed Gap with some of my questions in the past...

Not at all,

I am always glad to answer questions, especially informed questions like the ones posed often by you and plj, and to help however I can.

In all sincerity, the one times I get slightly irritated, is when I notice that someone mistakes this place for a supermarket, and pretends to match the most oddly assorted mods without even bothering to read the labels of stuff he is cramming in his cart.

[plj]

So yeah .. I realize I'm making you guys repeat yourself on this issue and that there might be 1000's of reasons why what normaly does not lead to a CTD, does in sh5.

I'm willing to attribute 50% of vague CTD's to a memory issue. I cant however attribute a CTD half way between Memel and Poland to a memory issue except for a memory leak perhaps .. yet, my (by now) extensive logging, shows no sign of this. It consumes ~ 1600mb of my available 6 .. with 2 gb doing absolutely nothing. My graphic card is showing same as always.

I can suppress CTD's by saving every 2 game hours or so .. and by not being stupid with time compression. Another sign of a different conflict imho.

[THE_MASK]

When I had SH3 my laptop was over minimum specs but with mods always ctds for years . Now I have a 64 bit os with 8 gigs of ram and a great video card I hardly ever get a ctd playing SH5 .

[test_m4a1]

Guys, the subject is about mod list, not specifications of PLJ's computer. 3/4 of this topic is about CTD due to technical stuff. There is no doubt that my CTD arent due to computer on his own

[plj]

Originally Posted by test_m4a1

Guys, the subject is about mod list, not specifications of PLJ's computer. 3/4 of this topic is about CTD due to technical stuff. There is no doubt that my CTD arent due to computer on his own

The short answer is: there is no short answer to the reason for your CTD's. Join the club. All we can do is try to reproduce CTD's reliably, and then go from there.

Have you tried saving at least every 2 game hours ? Does that improve the situation ?

You will get told that a certain amount of mods seems to be more then sh5 can handle, you will get told dat memory is an issue, you will get told idk if you manage to convince people of the first two not being applicable.

If we can not reproduce reliably, we can no investigate beyond your report. My CTD's are sortof random .. can you reproduce yours reliably ?

[gap]

Originally Posted by plj

You will get told that a certain amount of mods seems to be more then sh5 can handle...

not any mod. If a mod replaces a texture with a better texture of equal size and compression, if a mod corrects a setting with one more accurate, If a mod changes an FX with another one having the same pps rate and using the same base texture etc, I don't see why they should compromise game performance. On the contrary, mods adding lot of new features such as New UI's, OHII, Fx Update and probably R.S.D, are burdening a lot the game engine, and enabling too many of them might increase the crash occurrence. This has nothing to do with them being intrinsically bugged.

I won't deny that a bug can occasionally happen when a new version of the aforementioned mods is released, but this sort of problem is easily replicable and the tracking of its causes is just a matter of planning the appropriate tests, as the recent experience of FXU 0.0.22 vs 0.0.21 demonstrates. I wish the solution for the other crashes, the random ones, was that easy, but unfortunately it isn't.

In any case, I wish you good luck with your stress tests and I invite you to keep us informed on any progress you might make

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by test_m4a1

Guys, the subject is about mod list, not specifications of PLJ's computer. 3/4 of this topic is about CTD due to technical stuff. There is no doubt that my CTD arent due to computer on his own

Hello test_m4a1,
Before you do anything else please describe me your CTD situations in a bit more details. Do you remember fault modules names?

Post your JSGME conflict warning message when you installing RSD, this is important...

[test_m4a1]

I have two questions for You guys

1. Do You have any suggestions about mod list? I mean some mod should be higher or lower on modlist? Or maybe some mod shouldnt be at all?

2. Why i dont see information about destroyed ship? Ship is sinking but i dont see any information about it, i remember i had it before (previous SH5 mod list). I know there were options in TDW FileEditorViever about it but they were all enabled...

3. vdr1981 - here is a jpg witj RSD conflict on JSGME

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1365/0y6g.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7963/0maf.jpg

Its in 2 parts

[vdr1981]

So, are you going to tell me something about those CTD or ? Are they random? Are you 100% sure that you do not have CTD without RSD?

Give me copy/paste, I can't see anything from those images...