Features in SH1 and Aces That Have Since "Disappeared"

Subnuts · 01-25-10, 10:48 PM

So we've all been mourning the loss of the last two years of the war and every other boat except the VII. I sympathize with that. But it got me thinking: what did those "golden oldie" subsims I, and many of you, played for hundreds of hours "back in the days," have that the new crop doesn't?

As it turns out, a lot.

Please note that I'm referring to the OOB versions of SH3 and SH4, without mods. I'm just going to ignore SH2 altogether (I'm sure most of us have forgotten it...but not entirely forgiven it.)

Feel free to add to this list. I'm sure it's nowhere near complete.

In both sims:

Tenacious escorts that don't give up after 45 minutes.

Realistic damage repair times - fixing a diesel could take hours or even days, not minutes.
Interviews, submarine photo tours, and historical background info included on the CD.
ASDIC that behaved as it did in real life.
Submarine types that felt radically different from one another (the Fleet Boats in SH1 all had their unique qualities; in SH4, they're all kind of samey.)
Large, readable depth, speed, and course gauges.
Cut-scenes and newspaper headlines after your patrol if you've been killed, captured, promoted, or awarded a medal.
Working time compression.
Propeller sounds that seemed realistically loud - a destroyer passing overhead doesn't sound like a flea buzz, folks.
A sonar guy who isn't deaf.
Ability to bottom sub without continuously incurring damage.
Possibility of chlorine gas release due to flooding reaching the batteries.
More accurate compressed air usage.
Comprehensive quick mission generator.
50 or more historic single missions included straight out of the box.
Abandon ship option.
Manuals that focused on gameplay, rather than extraneous fluff.
Ability to play without an internet connection.
Possibility of fog in calm seas.
Bottoming the boat makes you harder to detect early-war.
Damage control screen that actually explains how the damage effects your ability to operate.
Enemy patrol planes that operate independently rather than in entire squadrons.

In Aces:

Wolfpacks (duh!)
Radio traffic from BDU and other boats.
Air-dropped homing torpedoes from Allied aircraft, and Foxer torpedo decoys.
Updates on the progress of the war (i.e., the bar).
Convoys that could be detected on hydrophones from up to 50 miles away.
"Smoke on the horizon, Captain!"
Possibility of getting your boat stuck in the mud.
Shaft damage effecting underwater stealthiness.
Silent running rendering pumps useless.
Leaking when diving below 180 meters.
Ability to empty bilges using compressed air.
Randomized tonnage for merchants instead of a fixed displacement - a "small merchant" could vary anywhere between 1,000 and 2,500 tons.

In SH1:

Ships that maneuvered realistically to evade steam torpedoes, not accelerating to 20 knots in 5 seconds and double-backing into the torpedo they were trying to avoid.
AI submarines with torpedoes.
Easily readable radar display with SD and SJ radars that worked as advertised and were reasonably historically accurate.
An idiot-proof interface with nice 2D panels, rather than clicking through menus in SH3 or deciphering religious symbols in SH4.
A single TDC panel, without an "attack map" behind it.
The ability to jettison debris.
Ability to start a career any month between December 1941 and August 1945
A versatile periscope interface that could show maneuvering gauges or TDC elements.
An ID manual with different warship types sorted by their type (BB, CA, DD, etc.), along with information on their armament.
A calendar with sunrise, sunset, moon rise, moon set, and moon phase information.
A working bathythermograph and randomized thermoclines.
Ability to turn red lights on and off.
Credit for ships damaged in single missions.
Ability to use "high scope" technique.
Detailed mission editor included with Commander's Edition.
Ability to abandon ship while stuck on the bottom in shallow water (see USS Tang)
Possibility of damage to electric motors due to flooding.
Calendar with lunar phases, moon and sun rise and set times, and the weather.

Ducimus · 01-25-10, 11:02 PM

Sad, isn't it?

razark · 01-26-10, 12:08 AM

For SHI, a manual that actually describes the game, the war, the real submarines and tactics, in part written by an actual sub commander.

A calendar with sunrise, sunset, moon rise, moon set, and moon phase information.

Bathythermograph. Air search radar that only displayed range and not bearing. Ability to turn on/off red lights. Abandon ship option. Surface radar that detects land masses. Compressed air. The ability to bottom the sub. In AotD, the ability to get the sub stuck in the mud. Chlorine gas from flooding reaching the batteries. The bar in AotD.

Just a few missing things.

Edit: Ack! How could I forget, from AotD, "Smoke on the horizon!"

dcb · 01-26-10, 01:37 AM

Plus I remember in the old SH1, I was also credited for the ships I damaged, but did not sink.

jazman · 01-26-10, 01:46 AM

You guys are ruining my day.

Obltn Strand · 01-26-10, 02:36 AM

Escort strenght of convoys and possibility of finding unescorted ones

when historically appropiate.

Capt. Morgan · 01-26-10, 03:23 AM

SH1:

Thermoclines were randomized, you never knew if there was one, and at what depth, until you made a test dive. They also changed depth over time/distance.

Raising the periscope on the surface gave you greater visual range.

Ran beautifully on Linux via Dosbox (and Winders too, I guess)

Now Flight Simulator, They know how to upgrade their sim. I've had most every version from Flight simulator II (for the Commie 64) to Microsoft's FS9, and in every new release, they've always just added new features, and never removed old ones.

difool2 · 01-26-10, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcb

Plus I remember in the old SH1, I was also credited for the ships I damaged, but did not sink.

Not in campaign-I once got reprimanded after returning to port after I emptied my entire clip of torps at a Yamato (and got tons of duds & preemies, but some hits).

I would have sworn that we get chlorine gas in SH3/4-say it ain't so Joe!

Right now I have a convoy set up (SH4) south of Korea in about 300 feet of water. I know I stand an excellent chance of getting away afterwards if I can get below the omnipresent thermocline before the escorts get too close. It was always a gamble if the essobee was there or not in SH1...

Chef · 01-26-10, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Sad, isn't it?

Makes me want to get a bottle of whiskey and a shotgun.

It seems that in today's world, gameplay is inversely proportional to graphics eye candy.

I had AoD and SH1 with all of the patrol disks once upon a time. *sniffle*

Ducimus · 01-26-10, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef

It seems that in today's world, gameplay is inversely proportional to graphics eye candy.

In todays world, graphical eyecandy IS the gameplay.

edit:

speaking of which, If i remember correctly, neither AOD, nor SH1 had an external camera like we do in SH3, and SH4.

Hartmann · 01-26-10, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subnuts

So we've all been mourning the loss of the last two years of the war and every other boat except the VII. I sympathize with that. But it got me thinking: what did those "golden oldie" subsims I, and many of you, played for hundreds of hours "back in the days," have that the new crop doesn't?

As it turns out, a lot.

Please note that I'm referring to the OOB versions of SH3 and SH4, without mods. I'm just going to ignore SH2 altogether (I'm sure most of us have forgotten it...but not entirely forgiven it.)

Feel free to add to this list. I'm sure it's nowhere near complete.

In both sims:

Tenacious escorts that don't give up after 45 minutes.

Realistic damage repair times - fixing a diesel could take hours or even days, not minutes.
Interviews, submarine photo tours, and historical background info included on the CD.
ASDIC that behaved as it did in real life.
Submarine types that felt radically different from one another (the Fleet Boats in SH1 all had their unique qualities; in SH4, they're all kind of samey.)
Large, readable depth, speed, and course gauges.
Cut-scenes and newspaper headlines after your patrol if you've been killed, captured, promoted, or awarded a medal.
Working time compression.
Propeller sounds that seemed realistically loud - a destroyer passing overhead doesn't sound like a flea buzz, folks.
A sonar guy who isn't deaf.

In Aces:

Wolfpacks (duh!)
Radio traffic from BDU and other boats.
Air-dropped homing torpedoes from Allied aircraft, and Foxer torpedo decoys.
Updates on the progress of the war.
Convoys that could be detected on hydrophones from up to 50 miles away.

In SH1:

Ships that maneuvered realistically to evade steam torpedoes, not accelerating to 20 knots in 5 seconds and double-backing into the torpedo they were trying to avoid.
AI submarines with torpedoes.
SD and SJ radar that worked as described, were easily readable, and had usable range readouts.
An idiot-proof interface with nice 2D panels, rather than clicking through menus in SH3 or deciphering religious symbols in SH4.
A single TDC panel, without an "attack map" behind it.
The ability to jettison debris.
Ability to start a career any month between December 1941 and August 1945
A versatile periscope interface that could show maneuvering gauges or TDC elements.
An ID manual with different warship types sorted by their type (BB, CA, DD, etc.)

in sh1 a flooding in the electric motor room cause damage to the motors after some time, as in real life with electric systems

In sh 1 Fight against Ia boats that dive and fire torpedos, i found some of them at night in the radar thinking that was a sanpan until it dives ! the most exciting experience that i had ever in a subsim, the hunt of another submarine ( i had to follow and plot an intercept ) course because it dives sometimes as in real life did japanese subs.

SH1 Possibility to abandon ship

in Aces of the deep, Realistic bilge gauge, stay under in silent running with the pumps stopped makes that water raises until you switch on the pumps again. ( more noise) unless you use compressed air.

Aces of the deep, fog in calm seas and no rain

IanC · 01-26-10, 07:32 AM

I once had a dream... the former Dynamix design team reunited and created; Aces Of The Deep II.
Mike Jones you reading this?

JScones · 01-27-10, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanC

I once had a dream... the former Dynamix design team reunited and created; Aces Of The Deep II.

I was actually fantasising about the same thing yesterday after I saw the SH5 "authentic" campaign map.

bishop · 01-26-10, 07:58 AM

Big boxes with lots of stuff inside. A real sense of value for the money spent...

misfitdreamer · 01-26-10, 08:17 AM

i think this is an important thread indeed.

the first sub game i played was silent hunter II. i guess the general consensus is SHII was terrible. but i don't know - at least it still had alot of features from SHI.

with everything going on in SH3, perhaps we can take it on for ourselves to make SH3 as close to SH1 and aces of the deep. this is why it is so important to get an SDK

we could also make sh5 our sh1 with mods too

01-25-10, 10:48 PM	#1
Subnuts The Old Man Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,658 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Features in SH1 and Aces That Have Since "Disappeared" So we've all been mourning the loss of the last two years of the war and every other boat except the VII. I sympathize with that. But it got me thinking: what did those "golden oldie" subsims I, and many of you, played for hundreds of hours "back in the days," have that the new crop doesn't? As it turns out, a lot. Please note that I'm referring to the OOB versions of SH3 and SH4, without mods. I'm just going to ignore SH2 altogether (I'm sure most of us have forgotten it...but not entirely forgiven it.) Feel free to add to this list. I'm sure it's nowhere near complete. In both sims: Tenacious escorts that don't give up after 45 minutes. Realistic damage repair times - fixing a diesel could take hours or even days, not minutes. Interviews, submarine photo tours, and historical background info included on the CD. ASDIC that behaved as it did in real life. Submarine types that felt radically different from one another (the Fleet Boats in SH1 all had their unique qualities; in SH4, they're all kind of samey.) Large, readable depth, speed, and course gauges. Cut-scenes and newspaper headlines after your patrol if you've been killed, captured, promoted, or awarded a medal. Working time compression. Propeller sounds that seemed realistically loud - a destroyer passing overhead doesn't sound like a flea buzz, folks. A sonar guy who isn't deaf. Ability to bottom sub without continuously incurring damage. Possibility of chlorine gas release due to flooding reaching the batteries. More accurate compressed air usage. Comprehensive quick mission generator. 50 or more historic single missions included straight out of the box. Abandon ship option. Manuals that focused on gameplay, rather than extraneous fluff. Ability to play without an internet connection. Possibility of fog in calm seas. Bottoming the boat makes you harder to detect early-war. Damage control screen that actually explains how the damage effects your ability to operate. Enemy patrol planes that operate independently rather than in entire squadrons. In Aces: Wolfpacks (duh!) Radio traffic from BDU and other boats. Air-dropped homing torpedoes from Allied aircraft, and Foxer torpedo decoys. Updates on the progress of the war (i.e., the bar). Convoys that could be detected on hydrophones from up to 50 miles away. "Smoke on the horizon, Captain!" Possibility of getting your boat stuck in the mud. Shaft damage effecting underwater stealthiness. Silent running rendering pumps useless. Leaking when diving below 180 meters. Ability to empty bilges using compressed air. Randomized tonnage for merchants instead of a fixed displacement - a "small merchant" could vary anywhere between 1,000 and 2,500 tons. In SH1: Ships that maneuvered realistically to evade steam torpedoes, not accelerating to 20 knots in 5 seconds and double-backing into the torpedo they were trying to avoid. AI submarines with torpedoes. Easily readable radar display with SD and SJ radars that worked as advertised and were reasonably historically accurate. An idiot-proof interface with nice 2D panels, rather than clicking through menus in SH3 or deciphering religious symbols in SH4. A single TDC panel, without an "attack map" behind it. The ability to jettison debris. Ability to start a career any month between December 1941 and August 1945 A versatile periscope interface that could show maneuvering gauges or TDC elements. An ID manual with different warship types sorted by their type (BB, CA, DD, etc.), along with information on their armament. A calendar with sunrise, sunset, moon rise, moon set, and moon phase information. A working bathythermograph and randomized thermoclines. Ability to turn red lights on and off. Credit for ships damaged in single missions. Ability to use "high scope" technique. Detailed mission editor included with Commander's Edition. Ability to abandon ship while stuck on the bottom in shallow water (see USS Tang) Possibility of damage to electric motors due to flooding. Calendar with lunar phases, moon and sun rise and set times, and the weather. __________________ My Amazon.com reviews Last edited by Subnuts; 02-02-10 at 04:41 PM.

01-26-10, 01:46 AM	#5
jazman Commander Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Crush Depth Posts: 449 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	You guys are ruining my day. __________________ "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." -- Chesterton

01-26-10, 03:23 AM	#7
Capt. Morgan Commander Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Just east of the west coast. Posts: 463 Downloads: 423 Uploads: 0	SH1: Thermoclines were randomized, you never knew if there was one, and at what depth, until you made a test dive. They also changed depth over time/distance. Raising the periscope on the surface gave you greater visual range. Ran beautifully on Linux via Dosbox (and Winders too, I guess) Now Flight Simulator, They know how to upgrade their sim. I've had most every version from Flight simulator II (for the Commie 64) to Microsoft's FS9, and in every new release, they've always just added new features, and never removed old ones. __________________ There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet. -- Admiral William Halsey Last edited by Capt. Morgan; 01-26-10 at 03:41 AM.

01-26-10, 07:58 AM	#14
bishop A-ganger Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 75 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Big boxes with lots of stuff inside. A real sense of value for the money spent... Last edited by bishop; 01-26-10 at 08:12 AM.

01-26-10, 08:17 AM	#15
misfitdreamer Loader Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 83 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 0	i think this is an important thread indeed. the first sub game i played was silent hunter II. i guess the general consensus is SHII was terrible. but i don't know - at least it still had alot of features from SHI. with everything going on in SH3, perhaps we can take it on for ourselves to make SH3 as close to SH1 and aces of the deep. this is why it is so important to get an SDK we could also make sh5 our sh1 with mods too __________________ USS Faith

01-25-10, 11:02 PM	#2
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Sad, isn't it?

01-26-10, 12:08 AM	#3
razark Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,731 Downloads: 393 Uploads: 12	For SHI, a manual that actually describes the game, the war, the real submarines and tactics, in part written by an actual sub commander. A calendar with sunrise, sunset, moon rise, moon set, and moon phase information. Bathythermograph. Air search radar that only displayed range and not bearing. Ability to turn on/off red lights. Abandon ship option. Surface radar that detects land masses. Compressed air. The ability to bottom the sub. In AotD, the ability to get the sub stuck in the mud. Chlorine gas from flooding reaching the batteries. The bar in AotD. Just a few missing things. Edit: Ack! How could I forget, from AotD, "Smoke on the horizon!"

01-26-10, 01:37 AM	#4
dcb Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 845 Downloads: 544 Uploads: 0	Plus I remember in the old SH1, I was also credited for the ships I damaged, but did not sink.

01-26-10, 02:36 AM	#6
Obltn Strand Commodore Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 614 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	Escort strenght of convoys and possibility of finding unescorted ones when historically appropiate.

01-26-10, 07:32 AM	#12
IanC Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Running silent and deep Posts: 902 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I once had a dream... the former Dynamix design team reunited and created; Aces Of The Deep II. Mike Jones you reading this?