[REL] [WIP] IJN DC mod - Page 4

leovampire · 10-15-07, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Well in all my merchant DC tests I mod the merchant both to include the DC launcher, and I throw in a new sns file that adds the top of the line hydrophone and sonar devices, so I'm sure they'll see me getting in their way noisily

I just opened the 2 sims (a merchant and a DD) and there are no differences in what S3D shows that seem obvious to me.

It seems controled by the UnitType parameter, not the sim, IMO.

In other words, the cmdr_AIShip ship is the same for all, and whereever cmdr_AIShip actually is, THAT is the file that decides. It compares the unit type and decides how to act. If the unit type is 0-4, it acts like an escort. I can do the same with a BB. throw some DC racks on Yamato's stern (Musashi got such racks refitted to her fantail in RL), and she doesn't use them. Change her type to 4, she's a big, fat DD and acts like one.

No sim changes at all.

Wonder if type=13 will drop DCs (aux cruiser)?

tater

Okay my bad sorry if I threw you off track then. Question though does a ship have to be designated an escort to defend or attack? I mean if a Merchant ship uses a deck gun why can't it be set up to use a DC rack without changing it's designation?

tater · 10-15-07, 03:21 PM

Changing a merchant to type=13 CTDs.

Hmmm.

tater

tater · 10-15-07, 03:24 PM

Yeah, exactly ^^^ they shoot AA and deck guns at ships. It must be in the sim (?) for the DC, actually.

Somewhere the DC "guns" have somethign that says "only types 0-4 can shoot me!"

I looked, but haven't figured it out.

Quite a few merchants got Y throwers, too. They didn't actively try and prosecute subs, they just spazzed out and fired them, lol.

tater

skwasjer · 10-15-07, 04:39 PM

Be advised, S3D does not implement every single bit/byte in all game files (in which case it just preserves it). Specifically, certain Node chunks and also properties chunks contain data that you can't see/change in S3D yet. I don't know if there's parts that you need that are not editable right now though.

leovampire · 10-15-07, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skwasjer

Be advised, S3D does not implement every single bit/byte in all game files (in which case it just preserves it). Specifically, certain Node chunks and also properties chunks contain data that you can't see/change in S3D yet. I don't know if there's parts that you need that are not editable right now though.

I can see in the Text part of a Hex editor some stuff about DC usuage in the sim file that S3D dosn't show.

tater · 10-16-07, 12:12 AM

Got Type 13 to work (was a mission error, I was rushing). Didn't shoot the DC or hedgehog, so it really is just types 0-4.

tater

ironkross · 10-21-07, 03:29 PM

ATM I am stuck in the middle of a patrol. If the IJN doesn't get me first and my patience holds, I will install and use w/ TM on the next patrol. It sounds like a nice improvement; thanks a bunch.

tater · 10-26-07, 12:56 PM

Anyone have a clue why even the stock Y gun only shoots in 1 direction? Ain't much of a "Y" is it, more like a "/" gun.

BTW, Kaibokans with 10ish throwers and 120 DCs are scary. Even with stock sensors.

tater

panthercules · 10-26-07, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Anyone have a clue why even the stock Y gun only shoots in 1 direction? Ain't much of a "Y" is it, more like a "/" gun.

I believe that would make them a "K" gun, actually - I did find the following on Wikipedia, for what it's worth (not much sometimes, but this does comport with what I remember reading somewhere else before, a long time ago):

The main disadvantage of the Y-gun is that it must be mounted on the centerline of a ship's deck, which may otherwise be occupied by superstructure, masts, or gun turrets. The K-gun, made standard in 1942, replaced the Y-gun as the primary depth charge projector. K-guns could be mounted on the periphery of a ship's deck, thus freeing up valuable centerline space.

I don't think that piece was focused on IJN DC throwers, but I suspect they may have reached the same conclusions as the Allied navies on this point.

Makes me think - when you added your supposedly "Y" guns, did you put then on the centerline with unobstructed firing arcs to both sides? If not, maybe that could explain why they only fired in one direction?

tater · 10-26-07, 02:14 PM

The STOCK Y gun is broken. The only reason the subchaser seems to fire on both sides is that one Y gun point left, the other points right.

Actually, DCs have no collision node, so they ignore hull anyway. You can place them inside the superstructure, they'll still shoot.

The simple work around is to alternate them, but it means that you can never have a single Y thrower on a ship, always 2, one shooting to port, the other to starboard.

tater

tater · 11-29-07, 11:25 AM

Punt for Peto.

Peto · 11-29-07, 11:34 AM

Thank You! This helps a Great Deal!

tater · 11-29-07, 01:00 PM

If it's true that the IJN never threw the 162kg type 2, then I can alter the stock K and Y guns to fire the lighter type 2 (mine is 110kg). This would give 2 more variants in load.

DCRack-SH4 = 18 Type 2 DCs (162kg warhead)
DCRack_TYPE95_1 = 18 Type 95 DCs (100kg warhead)
DCRack_TYPE95_2 = 10 Type 95 DCs
DCRack_TYPE02_1 = 18 Type 2 DCs (110kg warhead)
DCRack_TYPE02_2 = 6 Type 95/2 DCs -- parachute retarded 95s at ~100kg (I left them damage light to avoid sterns getting blown off on shallow drops)

KGun (stock) = 11 Type 2 DCs (162kg warhead)
KGun_JP_02 = 6 Type 95 DCs (100kg warhead)
KGun_JP_03 = 10 Type 95 DCs

YGun (stock) = 10 Type 2 DCs (162kg warhead)
YGun_JP_02 = 6 Type 95 DCs (3 per side of Y) (100kg warhead)
YGun_JP_03 = 10 Type 95 DCs (5 per side of Y)
YGun_JP_04 = 8 Type 2 DCs (4 per side of Y) (110kg warhead)
YGun_JP_05 = 12 Type 2 DCs (6 per side of Y) (110kg warhead)

If I changed the those stock throwers to the 110kg version, I could set the loads 12 for the K, and maybe 10 for the Y. The difference I have between the type 95 and smaller type 2 is pretty much only the fall speed, the damage values are nearly identical. As such, they can certainly be mixed up to make the loads variable on the escorts.

Example:

An Subchaser has 2 Y throwers. It could carry a total of 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22, or 24 DCs in the throwers in addition to the 2 roll racks. If the Y racks worked properly, you could have loads with 1 missing as well, but you always need 2 right now, one shoots port, one starboard. The 2 roll racks could possibly carry (with loadouts allowed missing a rack): 10, 18, 20, 28, 36. That means if we made some variant loadouts for the SC, you'd not know if it carried 22 total, 60, or something in between ).

There is another way that this mod mixes up the loadouts, BTW, and it's already there, not just an idea like loadouts. The DC capabilities is already built into the eqp file as a date-based evolution. So a ship might have no K throwers, then in August 1943, it gets 2 throwers holding 12 DCs. When the campaign or mission builder sets that escort, he has a choice for the configuration date of each ship. It could be mid 1944, and I can specify that a certain convoy escort has a April 1943 cfg date. it will NOT have the K throwers. There is no reason to expect each to be the latest and greatest. This requires no addition work aside from the campaign editing.

tater

Peto · 11-30-07, 03:22 PM

Actually--I can't be sure Japanese K-guns didn't throw the heavy charges. I assumed that based on what the Allies did (and possibly made an a**of me

). And I'm wondering if the sim can handle a escort tossing off 2 types of dc at the same time. If they both reference the same memory address, the 1st one to go off would probably be used for all subsequent charges. I've run into problems like that when modding other sims.

tater · 11-30-07, 03:52 PM

I've not had a problem, I have several ships with various types aboard at once, and they have different fall speeds, so I can tell.

10-15-07, 04:39 PM	#49
skwasjer The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,549 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 3	Be advised, S3D does not implement every single bit/byte in all game files (in which case it just preserves it). Specifically, certain Node chunks and also properties chunks contain data that you can't see/change in S3D yet. I don't know if there's parts that you need that are not editable right now though. __________________ S3D - Silent 3ditor (v0.9.9) - S3D homepage - Open sourced S3D file parser API's - SUBSIM thread SH5 mods: Speech Recognition for SH5 \| Digital UI Clock Tutorials: [TEC] Import/export 3D models to/from game using S3D [TEC] How to work with the model viewer in S3D - VIDEO

10-21-07, 03:29 PM	#52
ironkross Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Seneca, SC, USA Posts: 251 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	ATM I am stuck in the middle of a patrol. If the IJN doesn't get me first and my patience holds, I will install and use w/ TM on the next patrol. It sounds like a nice improvement; thanks a bunch. __________________ If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.

11-29-07, 11:34 AM	#57
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Thank You! This helps a Great Deal! __________________ If your target has a 30 degree AOB, the range from his base course line equals the current range divided by 2.

11-30-07, 03:22 PM	#59
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Actually--I can't be sure Japanese K-guns didn't throw the heavy charges. I assumed that based on what the Allies did (and possibly made an a**of me ). And I'm wondering if the sim can handle a escort tossing off 2 types of dc at the same time. If they both reference the same memory address, the 1st one to go off would probably be used for all subsequent charges. I've run into problems like that when modding other sims. __________________ If your target has a 30 degree AOB, the range from his base course line equals the current range divided by 2.

10-15-07, 03:21 PM	#47
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Changing a merchant to type=13 CTDs. Hmmm. tater

10-15-07, 03:24 PM	#48
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yeah, exactly ^^^ they shoot AA and deck guns at ships. It must be in the sim (?) for the DC, actually. Somewhere the DC "guns" have somethign that says "only types 0-4 can shoot me!" I looked, but haven't figured it out. Quite a few merchants got Y throwers, too. They didn't actively try and prosecute subs, they just spazzed out and fired them, lol. tater

10-16-07, 12:12 AM	#51
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Got Type 13 to work (was a mission error, I was rushing). Didn't shoot the DC or hedgehog, so it really is just types 0-4. tater

10-26-07, 12:56 PM	#53
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Anyone have a clue why even the stock Y gun only shoots in 1 direction? Ain't much of a "Y" is it, more like a "/" gun. BTW, Kaibokans with 10ish throwers and 120 DCs are scary. Even with stock sensors. tater

10-26-07, 02:14 PM	#55
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The STOCK Y gun is broken. The only reason the subchaser seems to fire on both sides is that one Y gun point left, the other points right. Actually, DCs have no collision node, so they ignore hull anyway. You can place them inside the superstructure, they'll still shoot. The simple work around is to alternate them, but it means that you can never have a single Y thrower on a ship, always 2, one shooting to port, the other to starboard. tater

11-29-07, 11:25 AM	#56
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Punt for Peto.

11-29-07, 01:00 PM	#58
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	If it's true that the IJN never threw the 162kg type 2, then I can alter the stock K and Y guns to fire the lighter type 2 (mine is 110kg). This would give 2 more variants in load. DCRack-SH4 = 18 Type 2 DCs (162kg warhead) DCRack_TYPE95_1 = 18 Type 95 DCs (100kg warhead) DCRack_TYPE95_2 = 10 Type 95 DCs DCRack_TYPE02_1 = 18 Type 2 DCs (110kg warhead) DCRack_TYPE02_2 = 6 Type 95/2 DCs -- parachute retarded 95s at ~100kg (I left them damage light to avoid sterns getting blown off on shallow drops) KGun (stock) = 11 Type 2 DCs (162kg warhead) KGun_JP_02 = 6 Type 95 DCs (100kg warhead) KGun_JP_03 = 10 Type 95 DCs YGun (stock) = 10 Type 2 DCs (162kg warhead) YGun_JP_02 = 6 Type 95 DCs (3 per side of Y) (100kg warhead) YGun_JP_03 = 10 Type 95 DCs (5 per side of Y) YGun_JP_04 = 8 Type 2 DCs (4 per side of Y) (110kg warhead) YGun_JP_05 = 12 Type 2 DCs (6 per side of Y) (110kg warhead) If I changed the those stock throwers to the 110kg version, I could set the loads 12 for the K, and maybe 10 for the Y. The difference I have between the type 95 and smaller type 2 is pretty much only the fall speed, the damage values are nearly identical. As such, they can certainly be mixed up to make the loads variable on the escorts. Example: An Subchaser has 2 Y throwers. It could carry a total of 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22, or 24 DCs in the throwers in addition to the 2 roll racks. If the Y racks worked properly, you could have loads with 1 missing as well, but you always need 2 right now, one shoots port, one starboard. The 2 roll racks could possibly carry (with loadouts allowed missing a rack): 10, 18, 20, 28, 36. That means if we made some variant loadouts for the SC, you'd not know if it carried 22 total, 60, or something in between ). There is another way that this mod mixes up the loadouts, BTW, and it's already there, not just an idea like loadouts. The DC capabilities is already built into the eqp file as a date-based evolution. So a ship might have no K throwers, then in August 1943, it gets 2 throwers holding 12 DCs. When the campaign or mission builder sets that escort, he has a choice for the configuration date of each ship. It could be mid 1944, and I can specify that a certain convoy escort has a April 1943 cfg date. it will NOT have the K throwers. There is no reason to expect each to be the latest and greatest. This requires no addition work aside from the campaign editing. tater

11-30-07, 03:52 PM	#60
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I've not had a problem, I have several ships with various types aboard at once, and they have different fall speeds, so I can tell.