The proposed health care bill thread (merged)

[Skybird]

Scenes from the globe's richest third-world-country:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...re-clinic.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gall...glewood-clinic

http://www.ramusa.org/

http://www.zeit.de/online/2009/34/bg...undheitssystem

Donors still needed, says RAMUSA - not for some African aid-project, but their stay in California.

One is used to see such things in Africa, SE Asia and from natural desaster areas only. A national shame for a country like the US, and a health system more expensive than for example the German one - but not more efficient or any better, while leaving every sixth American behind anyway.

And accusing Obama of intended euthanasia, and following a Nazi-agenda when talking of a mandatory health insurance that everybody can afford. What a disgusting hysteria. Palin mendaciously talked of "death commitees" after the health system reform in order to raise not arguments but primitive emotions in order to damage Obama - although her handicapped little son directly benefitted from the oh so socialistic structures of the health care system that already are there. What a mean, devious hypocrisy of this hungry reptile.

We have financial problems with our "socialistic" health care system in Germany, too. But then again, the medical standard is easily en par with the American one - but we pay roughly only half as much money. Strange, isn't it, even more when considering that over here not one sixth of the population falls through the net. Maybe you want to come over and learn how to have a better system than yours. Yours - is so corrupted by the pharmaceutical industry that you just get ripped off and off and off. If you like a corrupted pharmaceutical industry - that you can have in Germany, too, it is the most expensive market for medical drugs in Europe - and still, per head our system is much cheaper than yours.

Every sixth US citizen depends on events like in Inglewood, and has access only to most rudimental free services that often do not supply the needed medical treatement, for that would be too expensive, but only provide surrogate procedures and cheaper, less appropriate drugs. - But wanting to buy fighterplanes for over 300 million dollars per piece, while having already accumulated close to 12 trillion in public debts. I often think no other country in the world is as contradicting and made of such polarised extremes, as the US. It's always thinking in absolutes and extremes.

I see this as shameful for the US as it is shameful for Germany that in Berlin 20% of the schoolkids already are from so poor families that their parents send them to free school canteens and wellfare services that provide free lunchs - so that they get a warm meal at least every 2nd day. things like this are a disgrace for any rich civilised nation. For the US, and for Germany as well. But the malicious hysteria about Obama's reform really tops everything.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I often think no other country in the world is as contradicting and made of such polarised extremes, as the US. It's always thinking in absolutes and extremes.

Too true.

[AVGWarhawk]

I would agree also Sky and Mookie. I think a radical extreme change brings this on. This plan to many is very radical.

[SteamWake]

Mookie agreeing with Skybird on a post which is totally off topic.

How quaint.

I can do that too

The euro-region economy barely contracted in the second quarter as Germany and France unexpectedly returned to growth, suggesting Europe’s worst recession since World War II is coming to an end.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a3kTBJn7GfHQ

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Aramike/Mookie, article below and quote. The cost is up there for terminal folks. Obama states 80% of the total health care cost are due to chronically ill or those at the end of their life. This is troubling because he is looking at what? Possible panel of grim reapers for grandma or dad who has terminal cancer?

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/mai...es-again.html/

Indeed. I wasn't suggesting your point was wrong ... just wanted to comment on the number because it was so astronomically high.

[Aramike]

I often think no other country in the world is as contradicting and made of such polarised extremes, as the US. It's always thinking in absolutes and extremes.

Welcome to 2 party rule, my friend.

If you like universal health care you must also be in favor of gay marriage, abortion, banning firearms, unionization, atheism, etc. If you don't like it you must also be against gay marriage, all forms of abortion, want every child to own a gun freely, employer rights, the Ten Commandments in every classroom, etc.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I see this as shameful for the US as it is shameful for Germany that in Berlin 20% of the schoolkids already are from so poor families that their parents send them to free school canteens and wellfare services that provide free lunchs - so that they get a warm meal at least every 2nd day. things like this are a disgrace for any rich civilised nation. For the US, and for Germany as well. But the malicious hysteria about Obama's reform really tops everything.

How is it shameful for the US? Is the country obligated to guarantee everyone everything they want? Maybe it is shameful for these people who rely on volunteer services, but the country United States of America is doing just fine. There are always going to be have-nots. The "poor" of today have a life of comfort and ease compared to the poor 200 and 100 years ago, yet how many poor does one see voicing that fact? None, it's always "Help me". I don't have problem with helping the poor, but it must always remain voluntary.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

How is it shameful for the US? Is the country obligated to guarantee everyone everything they want? Maybe it is shameful for these people who rely on volunteer services, but the country United States of America is doing just fine. There are always going to be have-nots. The "poor" of today have a life of comfort and ease compared to the poor 200 and 100 years ago, yet how many poor does one see voicing that fact? None, it's always "Help me". I don't have problem with helping the poor, but it must always remain voluntary.

I agree. When the poorest of us have access to color television and clean running water, life really isn't that bad.

And I know for a fact that the poor have accessed to food through not only government food programs but independent pantries as well.

Society can only do so much for "impoverished" children. We can provide the food, but we can't make the irresponsible parents prepare it, or even take advantage of the programs in the first place.

One does start to understand why some people are indeed poor.

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Exactly what I have been saying all along. Fix the system first!

It won't happen ... Obama already thought of that when he or one of his czars cut (took away)
$300 billion dollars that has now been up'ed to $500 billion dollars from Medicare

in order to make his new health care plan affordable with an estimated cost over a ten year period of over
$1 trillion dollars, give me a break will there really be a 2019 with the national debt increasing?

National debt is now estimated at $17,000 per family of four and rising

If all he did is try to fix the system with these medicare cuts, even more outrage would come from townhall meetings.

Limit medicare to those who can't afford medical premiums and Social Security to those making under $250,000.

I bet the states wish they could just print more money to pay their bills, but they can't ... now can they

This graph speaks for itself ... does that mean that communism is better?

I don't think so: life-expectancy-versus-health-care-cost-per-capita

[ReallyDedPoet]

Originally Posted by Aramike

I agree. When the poorest of us have access to color television and clean running water, life really isn't that bad.

And I know for a fact that the poor have accessed to food through not only government food programs but independent pantries as well.

Society can only do so much for "impoverished" children. We can provide the food, but we can't make the irresponsible parents prepare it, or even take advantage of the programs in the first place.

One does start to understand why some people are indeed poor.

Problem is any one of us could be in the " have-not " category at any time. Be it though an accident, job loss, disease, etc, the list goes on.

I do a lot of work with the disabled and not one day goes by when I say to myself " I could be in this situation, this could be me or someone close to me " so I do all of my planning\work with that in mind.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by reallydedpoet

Problem is any one of us could be in the " have-not " category at any time. Be it though an accident, job loss, disease, etc, the list goes on.

I do a lot of work with the disabled and not one day goes by when I say to myself " I could be in this situation, this could be me or someone close to me " so I do all of my planning\work with that in mind.

My point was that there are many, many safety nets in place for that contingency. But that doesn't give anyone the right to have everything they want via TAKING from others.

Let's say something happens to you and you go to the poor house. Do you still think you deserve your 60" HDTV with 500 channels?

[SteamWake]

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by Aramike

I agree. When the poorest of us have access to color television and clean running water, life really isn't that bad.

And I know for a fact that the poor have accessed to food through not only government food programs but independent pantries as well.

Society can only do so much for "impoverished" children. We can provide the food, but we can't make the irresponsible parents prepare it, or even take advantage of the programs in the first place.

One does start to understand why some people are indeed poor.

Originally Posted by reallydedpoet

Problem is any one of us could be in the " have-not " category at any time. Be it though an accident, job loss, disease, etc, the list goes on.

I do a lot of work with the disabled and not one day goes by when I say to myself " I could be in this situation, this could be me or someone close to me " so I do all of my planning\work with that in mind.

So true ... many many people especially in today's ecnomic turn down are just one pay check away from calling a realitive for help or have to depend on the state to survive.

They should have townhall meetings just for people that see these kind of people everyday police, ambulance drivers, welfare workers, etc.

Answer their questions and probe them for what to do.

I hope and pray more help for children of druggie parents with sterner laws to protect children in abusive homes.

All druggie parents should have to attend re-education centers till they understand what they have done and what they are doing wrong.

New Hampshire? Obama? Townhall meeting?

Have I gone OT?

Add me to the list, but I can't resist adding my two cents to this subject about poor people.

I are one

[SteamWake]

Meth mug shots before and after.



Link to original (better resolution)

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=42845

[geetrue]

I was just talking about this OT somewhere else ...

Now it's on topic ... meth is a real problem especially for the children of meth users.

Originally Posted by geetrue on health care

I hope and pray more help for children of druggie parents with sterner laws to protect children in abusive homes.

All druggie parents should have to attend re-education centers till they understand what they have done and what they are doing wrong.