Have no children

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I grew up with two sisters. I have two daughters of my own. All four have never been told that they will be incomplete if they do not have children. In fact, my one sister is adopted Korean. My other sister adopted a Korean, as well as, had two girls of her own. My soon to be 15 year old has stated she will adopt over having a child of her own birth. As far as pleasing another to have a child, no one has pressured anyone in my family. To further that notions, why not adopt a child already on this mud ball? Anyway, sorry you were pressured. It is not right.

I never said I was, not in the sense that someone in a position to do so was hanging over me shouting HAVE KIDS HAVE KIDS HAVE KIDS.'

Nevertheless there is still an assumption made by many people that having kids is the "right" or "normal" thing to do, and that if you make a decision NOT to have them it's because you're "selfish" or there is some other deep character flaw that prevents you from wanting what they think everybody is supposed to want. It's there in the looks of unspoken sympathy or even suspicion that you get from some people when they find out you are childless, as though they can't comprehend how that could have been a deliberate choice for anyone.

As for adopting, I decided very early on that if I were going to raise children, I would adopt them, simply because I felt no burning need or desire to experience pregnancy, pass on my DNA, etc., and that being the case it would be better to provide a home for a child that was already here but had none.

I have never been in a position where having a child by any means looked like a responsible choice, nor have I ever worked towards the goal of putting myself in such a position, which pretty much says that it was never a goal or a priority in my life - if it had been I would have worked to make it happen.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Betonov

So he thinks having no children is a good idea. There's no reason for hostilities.

No, the author thinks this:

I would not be able cope with a frequently crying baby without becoming upset and angry.

This is the only hostility I see. I wonder why a majority seem to be dancing around this one sentence.

I reread it and found nothing that would hint about a selfish demand for everyone to stop having children or any little crumb about removing rights to have children.

That is because that was in Skybirds rant, not the article itself.

But hey, it's Skybirds post. That's it isn't it. One of his rare not-ranting over EU posts and you still went after him like a football mob

Post #3 asks the question you asked
Where does he say that? All I see is him talking about his personal decision not to have children and asking that others consider doing the same.
See the article doesn't talk about rights, Skybird took an article by someone who appears rather sad and complains about his unhappy childhood and put his own "utopia" spin on it about rights

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

I never said I was, not in the sense that someone in a position to do so was hanging over me shouting HAVE KIDS HAVE KIDS HAVE KIDS.'

Nevertheless there is still an assumption made by many people that having kids is the "right" or "normal" thing to do, and that if you make a decision NOT to have them it's because you're "selfish" or there is some other deep character flaw that prevents you from wanting what they think everybody is supposed to want. It's there in the looks of unspoken sympathy or even suspicion that you get from some people when they find out you are childless, as though they can't comprehend how that could have been a deliberate choice for anyone.

As for adopting, I decided very early on that if I were going to raise children, I would adopt them, simply because I felt no burning need or desire to experience pregnancy, pass on my DNA, etc., and that being the case it would be better to provide a home for a child that was already here but had none.

I have never been in a position where having a child by any means looked like a responsible choice, nor have I ever worked towards the goal of putting myself in such a position, which pretty much says that it was never a goal or a priority in my life - if it had been I would have worked to make it happen.

I understand your position. As far as the assumption that not having kids makes you something other than normal I do not buy. Not in today's age. You are, however, comparing your position to a males point of view as pointed in this article. I'm inclined to believe a males point of view concerning children are different than females. For some reason we as males are to continue the family name with a male child. Has been this way for centuries

[Betonov]

He did sound like he's worried that childless people will loose their rights in favor of those with children.
A shot in the dark, a political statement that can never be true in a western society and even if goverments get more opressive, I believe that number of children will not be very high on the ''taking away rights'' scale.

It's AVGs response that I understand the least

-- Richard Stallman

What do I care? I decided not to own a goldfish. I'm not writing about it.

And your point is ??
He decided to write about it as I decided to write about the Slovene demonstrations. A lot of people don't care about it. But I can and so can he and so can you. Free speech and all that jazz

The man has issues. I recommend a full psychiatric write up.

Why, because he is uncomfortable by an unpleasant loud noise. I used to be uncomfortable by dogs until I got one. Now I can't live without dogs.

I read this as, "I'm not getting any play."

I read it as "not getting any" and "I am a miserable git who is not getting any" with a side order of "daddy didn't love me"

I read this as ''I never heard of contraception''

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

This is the only hostility I see. I wonder why a majority seem to be dancing around this one sentence.

What hostility. He can't cope with a cyring baby. Neither can I. So he just removes himself to a quiet place and leave the baby to people that can cope. The same way I do it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Betonov

What hostility. He can't cope with a cyring baby. Neither can I. So he just removes himself to a quiet place and leave the baby to people that can cope. The same way I do it.

What part of "angry" is not hostile?

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

What part of "angry" is not hostile?

Mumbling and rumbling and going away to cool off is not hostile.
Yelling and throwing things at the baby and mother is hostile.

He's angry around kids, never says openly hostile.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Mumbling and rumbling and going away to cool off is not hostile.
Yelling and throwing things at the baby and mother is hostile.

He's angry around kids, never says openly hostile.

Anger is a feeling.

Feeling or expressing annoyance, animosity, or resentment; enraged

Throwing things is acting on your anger.

There is no way to sugar coat the word anger.

Hostility:

a hostile state, condition, or attitude; enmity; antagonism; unfriendliness.


Perhaps he should have said he does not like loud noises.

[Betonov]

Yes it is.

But only when someone reacts it's hostile.
If I make someone angry and he simply walks away, I don't find him hostile.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Yes it is.

But only when someone reacts it's hostile.
If I make someone angry and he simply walks away, I don't find him hostile.

Hostile is also a state. Not just a action.

Let's take a look at at the full text:

I decided not to have children. My family was full of tension and anger, and then I noticed that many others were too. Such a family life was in no way attractive. When older, often I saw parents rebuke their children for playing with me, or even in my vicinity, assuming it would bother me — without waiting to see if I objected. Rebuking those children had become an ingrained, automatic habit. To see this made me sad for them, but I knew I would be the same as a parent. I would not be able cope with a frequently crying baby without becoming upset and angry.

If this does not read as a person that has a poor outlook on family and child rearing, I don't know what does. His family is full of tension and anger. He apparently believe all families are because he see many others are. Family is not attractive to him as a result. Why would he want kids if this is true in his mind? Rebuking children apparently is ingrained. The author has some issues. He sees himself as one of those rebuking parents. The rest of the article is nothing but a good cover up to his real issue IMO.

[Skybird]

Okay, let's stop fantasizing about the man's "real issues", for nobody here knows them, nobody here is his psychiatrist, and he gave some more arguments on what he was about than just talking about his family.

Let's stick to what he actually said.

[Betonov]

So he has issues and doesn't want to have children so he may not transfer the issues on another generation. Good kid. Not strong enough to change his bad parts in the personalty but smart enough not to let them pass on.

He has issues. The issues I had manifested with an atempted suicide, not a decision not to have kids. And he's the one who's hostile. Svašta

[MH]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Okay, let's stop fantasizing about the man's "real issues", for nobody here knows them, nobody here is his psychiatrist, and he gave some more arguments on what he was about than just talking about his family.

Let's stick to what he actually said.

Question is what came first his personal issues and then grand justifications or the other way around.

As i said i don't like the idea of world being run by bitter old men with personal issues.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Okay, let's stop fantasizing about the man's "real issues", for nobody here knows them, nobody here is his psychiatrist, and he gave some more arguments on what he was about than just talking about his family.

Let's stick to what he actually said.

Where might the fantasy be? The first paragraph lays out his childhood.A family full of anger and tension. Was this just filler for the essay?