Teaching of Christianity 'lacks intellectual development'

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Brace yourselves....

I see no reason that religion should not be taught regarding its impact on historical events. The Inquisition, Crusades, Jihads, even the Buddhist uprising of 66 - all have important historical impacts. Understanding the motivational foundations for how/why societies have acted is necessary to understand and learn FROM history. Thus, basic information about the various faiths - without preference or bias - is necessary.

Yep - that means when your talking Islam or Christianity, you can state simply that both are monothiestic faiths that recognize various historical figures as religious leaders in various forms. You can discuss how each sees the other as a "false" theology, and each has or currently does allow for / promotes violence to achieve its increase in power DEPENDING on the interpretation. If a student wants to investigate a specific faith, they can do so outside the instructive setting of the course. Nor would various interpretations of individual faiths be necessary or fruitful. In essence - treating religion as part of the overall subject - not the subject itself.

Agree 100%. Religion has shaped so much of human history and the two are so intertwined so as to be inseparable. One doesn't have to advocate or denigrate religion in order to recognize and teach about it's significance in history. Just treat it matter of factly and I don't see the problem.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by August

Hey you don't have to convince me of it's importance but i'd rather leave the hole in the lesson than have some atheist or religious teacher use it to foist their own beliefs on their students which we both know they will do.

Imagine having Richard Dawkins or the Pope as a teacher

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by August

I'd rather not see religion mentioned in school at all, even in history class. Just like the subject can't be discussed with any guarantee of neutrality in these forums neither will it be so in the classroom. The biases of the teacher, whether negative or positive on the subject, will always eventually come out.

If we removed subjects that can't be taught without controversy or bias from school we might as well just send the students home.

[Gerald]

^With you as a teacher, you will be home soon,

[August]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

If we removed subjects that can't be taught without controversy or bias from school we might as well just send the students home.

Not all subjects have the same potential for controversy and there are subjects that are already too controversial for school so what is one more?

[August]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

One doesn't have to advocate or denigrate religion in order to recognize and teach about it's significance in history. Just treat it matter of factly and I don't see the problem.

Fine theory except that it ignores human nature. I've yet to meet an atheist who could talk about religion without injecting denigrating little comments about it and i'd expect that many religious folks would act similarly in promoting it even if unconsciously.

[Skybird]

It's not a question of human nature. It's a question of good and competent teachers, versus lousy and incompetent ones. The latter also often tend to have a lacking sense of responsibility.

Solution: fire bad teachers. Not possible if they are holding status of "civil servants". Maybe that should be changed then, for reasons of quality control. It must be possible to sport out bad teachers. Leaving them were they makes hundreds of children and students paying the price. And that is unacceptable, since the interest of the many in this case clearly outweighs the interest of the one.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Skybird

It's not a question of human nature. It's a question of good and competent teachers, versus lousy and incompetent ones. The latter also often tend to have a lacking sense of responsibility.

Solution: fire bad teachers. Not possible if they are holding status of "civil servants". Maybe that should be changed then, for reasons of quality control. It must be possible to sport out bad teachers. Leaving them were they makes hundreds of children and students paying the price. And that is unacceptable, since the interest of the many in this case clearly outweighs the interest of the one.

No, it would be a question of various factions within the local community jockeying to have their view of the contentious subject be the dominant and last word, just like it is with sex ed. You could fire every teacher you consider to be bad and you still have the problem. Hell, you could fire every teacher in America, replace them with individuals that you have personally chosen and the problems will still remain.

The real issue is that no one will agree with how they want it taught. Many communities can't even agree with how they want math taught, and numbers are numbers.

[August]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

No, it would be a question of various factions within the local community jockeying to have their view of the contentious subject be the dominant and last word, just like it is with sex ed. You could fire every teacher you consider to be bad and you still have the problem. Hell, you could fire every teacher in America, replace them with individuals that you have personally chosen and the problems will still remain.

The real issue is that no one will agree with how they want it taught. Many communities can't even agree with how they want math taught, and numbers are numbers.

Exactly.

[Hottentot]

I must have had really weird teachers, since I had religion classes in school for 12 years and history classes for, what, 8 years or so, and to this day I can't even begin to guess if any of my many teachers in those years were religious or atheists.

[Gerald]

As long as they did a good job, it does not matter if they are religious or atheists, if this does not affect teaching.

[kiwi_2005]

Originally Posted by Oberon

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Hottentot

I must have had really weird teachers, since I had religion classes in school for 12 years and history classes for, what, 8 years or so, and to this day I can't even begin to guess if any of my many teachers in those years were religious or atheists.

That compares to my experiences (Gymnasium, West-Berlin, finished school winter 1985).

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Skybird

That compares to my experiences (Gymnasium, West-Berlin, finished school winter 1985).

West Berlin, outside the communist regime,

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Vendor

West Berlin, outside the communist regime,

West Berlin, the thorn right in the heart of the communist regime.