TMO 2.5 Difficulty

[Hylander_1314]

Yes, TDW's Water Disturbance, and progressing damage from firw mod for ships and planes are good ones too.

The Water Disturbance mod gives you a 10 to 20 second breater because of what the DCs would do to the water in RL.

The fire damage mod helps with ships and planes that would otherwise go along their merry way as if no damage or little was done. Especially planes.

[mido]

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Yes, TDW's Water Disturbance, and progressing damage from firw mod for ships and planes are good ones too.

The Water Disturbance mod gives you a 10 to 20 second breater because of what the DCs would do to the water in RL.

The fire damage mod helps with ships and planes that would otherwise go along their merry way as if no damage or little was done. Especially planes.

I don't want to hijack the thread but where can I find a version for SH4? I only found it for SH3 and SH5.

Thanks

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally Posted by CCIP

I find TMO+RSRD easier than TMO for escorts, and I suspect a large part of it is because the skill rating of escorts is set lower in RSRD, which definitely affects their behaviour.

Ahhhh, that's probably the reason I have survived TMO thus far. I am running it with RSRDC.

[Hylander_1314]

Try this link Mido,

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...isturbance+mod

Check out his Gamefront page, as the ship plane fire damage mod should be there too.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by WernherVonTrapp

Ahhhh, that's probably the reason I have survived TMO thus far. I am running it with RSRDC.

It's still fairly easy to edit the RSRD crew ratings with notepad, just a lil time consuming.

[BernieP2]

Hi,

Back after a while not playing SH IV -TMO 2 + RSRD.

Understand Ducimus has continued to tweak!... TMO 2.5 is available - wonderful.

Great news. Can anyone point me to an upgrade list ... e.g. what's new different, etc. In addition to RSRD I also have other mods - 1440 screensize for maps, and Max Optics mods. Don't want to get messed up by double installing anything.

I'm planning on upgrading and also using MultipleSH IV mod to have different versions working at once.

Bernie

[Hylander_1314]

Bernie, if you go to the SH4 Mods Workshop, the TMO thread on the first page, has a link to the Manual for 2.5.

Also has all the links you will need to download the mod.

Make sure to read it through though. There are optional mods Ducimus includes.

Metric Speedchart Nomograpg

Aft Deckguns - Choose if you want fore or aft deckguns, and live with your choice, as the game has a bug from the original stock that doesn't like it if you try to switch between them

Alternate SJ Radar Performance

Alternate Engine Sounds

Sample Emblem

Stock Gramaphone

Optional SubTextures by Fooshin

There is also an option to play with a pseudo Narwal boat, and I think there is something else that I am not remembering at the moment.

[Stoli151]

Originally Posted by TorpX

TorpexXIII,

I would consider trying RFB. The escorts are not super-capable. At least not early in the war. If you play at high realism, without map contacts, or external cams, it can still be challanging.

I really did like RFB also as well as TMO but last time I played RFB you were invisible to the enemy on the surface at night. Did this ever get fixed? I mean you could bump into an escort and it would not notice you unless you opened fire on it. Once I found this out the mod became no fun, it was too easy to just do a night surface attack on anything, unless it was late enough for the escorts or capital ships to have radar. In the daytime things seemed to work as they should. The only workaround was to take the environment folders out of the mod. The odd thing is nobody but me and a few others seemed to notice this. I wonder if it was just some kind of game settings issue? I hoped back then somebody that designed the mod could give me an answer but I think they were burned out on working on it. Too bad really I thought it was an excellent concept for a mod. If you just could fix that issue(if I'm not crazy and am not the only one having it) and take the sinking physics thing out of the mod it would be pretty excellent. I loved the sub damage model in RFB no more trading blows with DD's on the surface one hit from a large caliber round and you weren't making it back to port . Even a lucky shot from a merchant with a large deck gun could finish you if the pressure hull was breached, pretty realistic in my opinion. But when I'm up for a challenge I love TMO I hardly ever make it back to port and it's more of a finished product in my opinion.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Stoli151

I really did like RFB also as well as TMO but last time I played RFB you were invisible to the enemy on the surface at night. Did this ever get fixed? I mean you could bump into an escort and it would not notice you unless you opened fire on it. Once I found this out the mod became no fun, it was too easy to just do a night surface attack on anything.

I have not made that many night surface attacks, but on at least two occasions when I did, I was spotted. Perhaps, what you describe is possible, under certain circumstances, but I don't think it is typical. It may be partly due to design limitations of the game. I have read of similer complaints to yours about SH 3, so maybe it is a problem of the game engine being oversimplified in this regard. Usually, people complain that it is too difficult to get close at night.

[Stoli151]

Originally Posted by TorpX

I have not made that many night surface attacks, but on at least two occasions when I did, I was spotted. Perhaps, what you describe is possible, under certain circumstances, but I don't think it is typical. It may be partly due to design limitations of the game. I have read of similer complaints to yours about SH 3, so maybe it is a problem of the game engine being oversimplified in this regard. Usually, people complain that it is too difficult to get close at night.

After posting last night I decided to give RFB another go it seems from the few missions I played that the April patch seems to be the culprit. Sometimes I would be within a couple thousand yards of a destroyer during the day on the surface and it would not notice me. I think it may have something to do with fog not being rendered properly. I would see a clear day where the AI was being restricted by "the fog". If I reran the same mission without the patch I could see the fog and not the DD until we got close then he opened fire as he should. One other issue seemed to be the escorts had problems dealing with me if I was at periscope depth. I would agree with you that perhaps it is a stock game limitation but I haven't noticed such issues while playing TMO, plus the fact that I resolved one of the issues by simply not applying the April patch. But like I said I did like a lot of other things about it. I wish somebody would take up the reigns and finish it. If I had the skills I would definitely offer my help. Maybe when more people get updated hardware to properly play SH4 we will see more modders coming over to it. I think SH4 has a lot of things going for it for those that want some upgraded graphics and SH3 style gameplay but it seems all the modders are split between SH3 and 5 right now with a few lone exceptions spending time with 4(I wish whatever happened to put the kabosh on gwx4 never happened I'm sure that would have been excellent if it came to fruition). And Ducimus from what I've gathered from 2.5 is done with spending time with TMO(and I thank him for his excellent work that without I wouldn't even play sh4 anymore) so its starting to look like sh4 is at the end of the road as far as megamods go.

[TorpX]

Stoli151,

If you liked RFB otherwise, I would try a fresh copy of it (or the Apr. patch). It sounds like you may have a bad download. I don't know enough about computers to comment about possible hardware issues. I don't recall this night surface attacks being too easy issue comming up on the RFB thread. You might post it there and see if anyone else has had the same problem.

I'm not sure what you mean by RFB being "not finished". As far as I know it was finished; it is just not being actively updated.

[Stoli151]

Originally Posted by TorpX

Stoli151,

If you liked RFB otherwise, I would try a fresh copy of it (or the Apr. patch). It sounds like you may have a bad download. I don't know enough about computers to comment about possible hardware issues. I don't recall this night surface attacks being too easy issue comming up on the RFB thread. You might post it there and see if anyone else has had the same problem.

I'm not sure what you mean by RFB being "not finished". As far as I know it was finished; it is just not being actively updated.

Take a look at post #766 and #787 specifically in the RFB2.0 thread amongst a few others and you will see what I mean. If you play later in the war this problem won't occur because the escorts are able to zero in on you with radar but if you play very early in the war(1942) when all the enemy has is its visual senses when you are on the surface, that's when it happens. I thought about it maybe being a bad download also and tried getting it elsewhere same issues still occurred though. By me saying "someone should take up the reigns and finish it" I may have insulted someone but that was not my intention maybe I should have said still needs some "smoothing" in my opinion. I see things in it like DD's bobbing around like corks when they chase you also. I meant no disrespect I know guys do this work for free and I appreciate it. I just thought it was a shame these few minor things couldn't get looked at to make it a better mod.

[bandit484]

Originally Posted by TorpX

Yes, you can always go at least a little deeper than the test depth. Don't all the mods allow this? How much deeper is the question. I personally am quite reluctant to take an S-boat below 220 to 240 ft. Maybe it is ok to do so, but I don't want to end a career, just to see 'what would happen'.

I tested how far down you could go in my s-boat and the deadly area seems to be around 320ft. I hope this information helps with regards to developing some tactics for the s boats.

[gAiNiAc]

Well............

Maybe you need to change your mindset and your tactics will follow.

I really like TMO. It's a gas. With that being said.............

I assume that I will be detected. I expect to be detected once I attack. I usually can get by a screen. If I'm detected before I reach firing position; I just drive right on in and wreak havoc. Anywhere from a standard to flank bell. Many depth and course changes. You need to know your enemies detection capabilities............Don't sit around waiting for the cans and hope they don't knock you on the head. They will.

I try to be outside anyones detection arc by about 1000 yards..... minimal facing aspect. Deep.

From range you need to analyze the formation and the escort patterns.

From there I usually draw a line indicating the formations overall course.... (I'm thinking LARGE formations right now...just scale down as neeeded..)

Then I look at the disposition of escorts and their sweep pattern.

They all usually cover a certain amount of frontage. I look for the "thin" points where they overlap and that's where I penetrate the screen.

The buggers might get right on you....but they don't necessarily got you. You need to be able to recognize when they're just dropping versus making a dead on run over your head and unloading. Don't let them spoof you into evasive maneuvers unecessarily.

Anyhow.........the mindset change you need to make is thus; you state (paraphrased) "I was deep, silent and slow....but they heard me!!!!"

As if you shouldn't have been.

The point is...assume that you will be detected and fight as such. Be the aggressor. Screw conserving your fish. I shot 4 at a minesweeper last patrol. 3 missed, when the 4th got him.....it was a hoot, blew him out of the water......broke him in half, blew the forward section into the air and it spun upside down and then crashed into the water.

Less then a 1000 tons but the visual was certainly worth it.

Regarding evasion............

You need to pick your axis of escape and maneuver around that. It's usually the opposite direction of the formation. Change depth a lot. you don't need to necessarily maneuver drastically. All it takes is a chess like mindset. Think in terms of boat lengths.

I wish I could be more concise about my play style; a great part of it is using the hydrophones and imagining what they're doing on the surface and maneuvering ahead of the game.

A big part of it is knowing when the heat is really on and driving to periscope and fighting the boat. Down the throat shots. A whole nest of fish. Don't even think about torpedo conservation. Think boat conservation.

Oh yeah....go find Bungo Pete. He'll teach you a lot about evasion.



Have fun....

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Yes, TDW's Water Disturbance, and progressing damage from firw mod for ships and planes are good ones too.

The Water Disturbance mod gives you a 10 to 20 second breater because of what the DCs would do to the water in RL.

The fire damage mod helps with ships and planes that would otherwise go along their merry way as if no damage or little was done. Especially planes.

Where can I get these mods? Did not see them in the download section.They work fine with TMO?