TMO 2.5 Difficulty
 

HHmmm...

I havent been on in a while and noted with intererst that there was a TMO 2.5, which I downloaded.

I like the new version. Great detail, graphics etc. I do have problem that I want to sort out. I know I risk getting all the "your just not very good comments" but...

In my very humble opinion the enemy escorts, patrol craft etc are FAR too good! An example is as follows. ( I have maximum difficulty settings as I like the realism)

Perfect end round approach on small convoy. Settle into a great firing position (a tad far but Im woried about these super escorts!!!). Around 2500 yards away. I fire whilst the convoy is still infront of me and about 20 degrees to my port. I fire a spread of four torpedoes and immedietly dive and turn away. All of this is done on ahead slow and silent running. I score two hits and hear noises of a breaking up freighter. By the time the single auxilliry sub chaser escort is approching to about 1000 yards Im well below my test depth at 350ft and under a thermal layer at about 200ft. I slow to 1 knot have got away from the attack site. The subchaser (yes using active sonar) pings all the way in drops a perfect couple of charges. Prior to the commencing chaos you could have heard a pin drop in my sub. Yes I know active sonar will pick my sub up however silent I am but Im deep and under a layer. HOW did my enemy know exactly where to look. Anyway there now commmences a four hour depth charging from my new best friend. I evade and only pick up minor damage. I use a mix of hard turns with full speed and then back down to 1 knot with plenty of direction changing. My escort NEVER fails to lose me even after I dive to 400ft using the same tactics. After five hours he scores a direct hit and turns my nice shiny sub into a squished can.
Baring in mind that this was 1942 and according to my history intel the Japs should have had poor equipment and bad tactics at this point regarding ASW. Tell that to this guy!!!

Anyway anyone else with any similar? I think the escorts are just a tad too good.... Also can anyone tell me how to dumb them down a bit? Another mini mod?

Your thoughts fellow skippers...

PS I am a MASSIVE TMO fan.

PPS. I have started x3 carreers now and all ended pretty much the same way. If Im detected by an enemy escort Im dead meat....

Well, if your attacking in calm seas, that makes it quite easy for them to get you. That may be your problem

Were you firing Mk 14's, there wakes points both ways. I had just passed an escort at 650 yards at a depth of 24ft (semi decks awash) doing 2/3 speed, at night of course. I think the escorts detection is the same as the previous TMO's with the exception that their visual detection has been lessened, especially at night it seems.

You may have run across and escort with an Expert AI crew setting.

Page 10 of the PDF manual,

Artificial Intelligence

The games AI has more sensitive sensor settings then in the stock game, and has one philosophy in mind. That being, attacking a convoy, and not getting depth charged to some degree, is anti climatic, and boring. The adjustments to the AI, are aimed to address that shortcoming in the stock game.

Be warned, newer players may find evasion in TMO a daunting task, while the seasoned submarine simulation fan may find things too easy. Opinions on the AI in TMO will vary greatly, depending on the users experience level.

Side note: night surface attacks which weren't very feasible in the stock game, are now a very good option to consider.

How far an AI unit can visually see depends on the unit type. Merchants are on the lower end of thescale, followed by warships such as destroyers, followed by capitol warships, which are followed by aircraft, which see the farthest.

I think there was an AI mod that made it very easy to escape the Japanese DDs and escort vessels, but I can't seem to locate it. :hmmm:

Ta
 

Cheers guys, thanks for help/advice. Perhaps Im unluckily getting good escorts each time. Yes they were Mk14's so thats why as soon as I fired I ran. It just seems odd that they never seem to go for the firing position just straight for me every time!!! LOL

Ill keep testing but Ive also dropped to 1kt speed, been below a layer and at 400ft and they just have me in contact constantly. Im all for tough escorts but it seems these guys have 2012 sonar equipment! :ping:


PPPPS...

I think that perhaps they should have stock detection levels for the early years as its a historical fact that the IJN ASW effort had poor tactics and equipment to begin with. The IJN put very little resource into ASW tactics and equipment at the start of the war as they almost completely discounted the Allied submarine threat. So it follows that the escorts performance should be a little poorer if not crap in the early years of the campaign.

It's a balance of tactics. Many of us complain it's still not hard enough.
I can still go out and sink unrealistic tonnage. Once you learn how the AI reacts, it's fairly easy to deal with it.

Trust me, play it for a few months, you'll start wanting more difficultly as you learn the AI.

You may want to give RFB a try. This Mod is geared more towards "realism" than exciting gameplay. Enemy Destroyers will not have super abilities and hunt you relentlessly. Truth be told, Japanese ASW especially in the early part of the war, was lacking. They didn'y have radar until late in the war. If you listen to the live recording of the Sealion's attack on the Kongo, you could clearly get a picture of what I mean. You could hear crewmen commenting on the misguided depthcharge attack which followed. The Japanese were depthcharging in the completely opposite area of where the sub was. They had no clue where the sub was. Later on, with better equipment and tactics, the Japanese were able to mount a more aggressive counter attack.

My intention was not to badmouth any Mod or anyone's hard work here. Everyone is entitled to their own method of gameplay. This is just my own opinion, so please put away the flamethrowers:timeout:

Yep! What Armistead said!

What really makes it interesting, is when you get the balao boat, and keeping her trim below 600ft. You can run silent, but you will start to sink deeper and will need to figure out what speed at depths passed 600 will keep you levelled off. It is easier to lose the dds at greater depths, but it's a tradeoff, because you have to run at slightly higher speeds, which makes more noise. The upside, is that it takes longer for ashcans to get down to your depth, so you can usually outrun them at more moderate speeds, preserving battery power.

Just give yourself some more time to get used to it again. And if need-be, until you find out what works, use the external view, F12 to see what's going on. Without 3D sound, it's hard to figure out exactly where the dds are coming at you from, where if you had sounds reflecting the position of the charging escort, you could make the appropiate turning manuevers.

Thnx for the advice ppl, had the same problem here!Never able to stay alive!
Have a happy new year lads!

Thanks
 

Cheers again guys. Im going to keep going and I may try RFB. Ive just read SILENT RUNNING by J F Calvert and I agree with the comments below. The IJN ASW was crap at the start so it would be awesome if the toughness of the escorts went up as the campaign progressed. Again as already said I do take my hat off to all the hard work thats gone into modding this game. It really is amazing.

Before you make the jump to RFB, just know that you can set the difficulty level in TMO just like you do in the regular game. I always choose "Normal" and have my realism level set to 75%. This way, you can still play TMO and not have to worry about elite crews always manning the ASW ships.
http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/...s/1ba0b534.gif

Try the Easier AI mod for TMO. I've used it with TMO versions 2.1, 2.2, and 2.5.

I could be wrong Wernher, but i believe that only relates to realism settings, not escort difficulty.

Easier MOD
 

Id like to try out the easier escort MOD for 2.5. Where can I find it? I did have a look!?

I was looking for it the other night myself, to post here, but couldn't find it either.