TMO 2.5 Difficulty

[TorpX]

TorpexXIII,

I would consider trying RFB. The escorts are not super-capable. At least not early in the war. If you play at high realism, without map contacts, or external cams, it can still be challanging.

[Hylander_1314]

Does RFB let you take the boat deeper than the test depth redline? Just curious is all.

[TorpX]

Yes, you can always go at least a little deeper than the test depth. Don't all the mods allow this? How much deeper is the question. I personally am quite reluctant to take an S-boat below 220 to 240 ft. Maybe it is ok to do so, but I don't want to end a career, just to see 'what would happen'.

[The Renegade]

Originally Posted by TorpexXIII

Id like to try out the easier escort MOD for 2.5. Where can I find it? I did have a look!?

I'd recommend asking in the TMO thread, perhaps someone there might have some luck! You might even get a response from the all knowing Ducimus! Who KNOWS what could happen??

I can tell exactly what you're going through though. Playing TMO is a huge wakeup call, and I've already had to start another career. I attacked a convoy of three Huge passenger liners. Smacked one with 3 torps, another with one, and while I was stunned, gazing at the first one explode and sink the destroyer came over to me and plopped a load onto my head. I was still at periscope depth....

That Easier Escort mod would be PERFECT for all the people trying to ease into the harsh reality of TMO. Cause I mean, you don't wanna miss on everything else TMO has to offer. Although I gotta try RFB too, goodness me. Anywho, good luck!

** I DID see it mentioned in a random post but the file is missing from Gamefront. Anyone know about this?? http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...er+TMO+escorts

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Mescator

I could be wrong Wernher, but i believe that only relates to realism settings, not escort difficulty.

That would be correct.....

[TorpexXIII]

OK. Ill try and keep this brief.

Sighted a small convoy of three ships. One merchant and two smaller vessels zigging, one behind and one in front of the merchant. All are heading on a mean course of about 200-210 ( approx SSW)

Position approx 17.07N 119.16E (about 180 miles NW of Manilla) Time 2030hrs. Date Nov 4th 1942 (What were IJN ASW abilities at this time..!?Anyway....) Weather is clear sea state is choppy.

I get into position about 2500 yds SE of the target. No escorts showing any signs of detecting me and all are still zigging. I am already dived, at battle stations and on silent running. Im in SS185 USS Snapper Test depth of a meagre 250ft !!

At this range I fire a spread of four torpedoes and immedietly dive at one knot to 248ft. Whilst on the way down I hear two explosions followed by noises of failing bulkheads (always sad) Ive sunk the merchant Tyohei Maru. Time now 2305hrs. Before I fired my torps I ID'd the escorts as destroyer types.

I continued toward the dying Maru and away from the firing position at 2/3 ahead. No pinging but escorts are closing fast. How they know the firing position that accurately is beyond me. Baring in mind its dark and Im sure the Maru had only a vague idea if any about the direction the torps came from let alone the exact firing position. Then managed to radio this to the escorts whilst abandoning ship!!!

Anyway...

The inevitable perfect homing skills of the escorts bring them right above me. ( I had slowed to 1kt before they got close) There then follows three hours of depth charging. ( I know some went on for far far longer ) But whilst this is going on I use fast and slow tactics. A maximum depth of 250 feet. I keep a low bow or stern on profile (as much as is possible) I kept my revs (when not dodging charges) at about 90 (1kt) There was also a thermal at about 170ft

The escorts never once broke contact and looked like they had perfect accuracy AND depth on EVERY depth charge!!!!

I dived to 350 ft and still the same I even got a close call and got my stern tubes damaged. This went on for another hour.

I then (with sweat pouring) dived to 405 ft and ducked and weaved for another hour. FINALLY I broke contact and got away to the NW.

I love a good fight as much as the next man but I question the accuracy of the enemy to judge the firing position and also the accuracy of the follwoing attacks.

Did mk14's really leave a trail of bubbles from the firing position to the target that stayed bubbling away on the surface for minutes showing the exact firing position (AND IN THE DARK!!!!). Then could that Maru get the info to the escorts (they were surely too far away to see my glowing Mk14 trail in the dark?) whilst being a sinking fireball!!??

Ahhh...enough of my rant... I got the kill and got away but I read in US histories that some subs actually went Destroyer hunting!!! Not an option for me at present!!!


PS I say all the above with the greatest respect to the TMO teams as I do LOVE their work but Id love to see a reassesment of the IJN ASW capabilities. Esp early war years...

PPS I have put an entry on the modders forum to look at these entries. ANYONE FOUND THAT MOD THAT DUMBS DOWN THE ESCORTS????!!!

Yours, Commanding Officer USS Snapper (SS185)

[Fish40]

Here's another little tidbit of info. from Wikipedia:


Pacific theater
In the Pacific, Japanese depth charge attacks initially proved fairly unsuccessful against U.S. and British submarines. Unless caught in shallow water, a U.S. submarine commander could normally dive to a deeper depth in order to escape destruction.
The deficiencies of Japanese depth-charge tactics were revealed in a press conference held by U.S. Congressman Andrew J. May, a member of the House Military Affairs Committee who had visited the Pacific theater and received many intelligence and operational briefings. Incredibly, May mentioned the highly sensitive fact that American submarines had a high survivability rate because Japanese depth charges were fuzed to explode at too shallow a depth.
Various press associations sent this leaked news story over their wires, compounding the danger, and many newspapers (including one in Honolulu, Hawaii) published it. Soon, Japanese forces were resetting their depth charges to explode at a more effective average depth of 75 m (250 feet), to the detriment of American submariners. Vice Admiral Charles A. Lockwood, commander of the U.S. submarine fleet in the Pacific, later estimated that May's revelation cost the United States Navy as many as ten submarines and 800 seamen killed in action.[31]

[Jan Kyster]

Originally Posted by TorpexXIII

Id like to try out the easier escort MOD for 2.5...

2.5 N/A, but I have this one for 2.2

Test at own risk... not yet knowing what Duci did to the visuals

http://www.mediafire.com/?17xvyqvy7alba3k

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally Posted by Armistead

That would be correct.....

Ahh, OK. I guess I made an inaccurate presumption there. I rarely ever get pinged, let alone DCed, so I just equated that with my in-game difficulty settings.

[TorpexXIII]

Thanks for dumb and dumber mod. Ill try it out....


Cheers gents.

( Cant seem to download from link. Just get this competition link......urgh...)

[Lannes]

I don't know how much they have in common, but the best training I had for TMO was countless hours of GWX for SH3.

Originally Posted by TorpexXIII

Thanks for dumb and dumber mod. Ill try it out....


Cheers gents.

( Cant seem to download from link. Just get this competition link......urgh...)

HMCS provided the Easier AI Mod. PM him and maybe he can provide it again.
Here is the doc'n he provided;
"Easier AI for TMO
--------------
AI Passive detection not as accute.
Easier to evade active sonar via depth
Single engine planes no longer detect shallow submerged objects.


//changes from TMO 2.0

sim.cfg
------------
Visual ->surfaceFactor -> from 30 to 40
Hydrophone -> noisefactor -> from 0.35 to 0.5


AI_sensors.dat
---------------
Type93-1A -> Max Elevation -> from 115 to 110
Type93-3A -> Max Elevation -> from 115 to 110
Type93-5A -> Max Elevation -> from 115 to 110

AI_VisualSensors.dat
AirS_Visual -> MinSUrface -> from -2.2 to 0.1"

[Hylander_1314]

Originally Posted by TorpexXIII

Ahhh...enough of my rant... I got the kill and got away but I read in US histories that some subs actually went Destroyer hunting!!! Not an option for me at present!!!

I go DD hunting all the time! Because of that, I have yet to join the 100k sunk in one mission club, but I have a score of 35 DDs and other assorted escorts so far. I think I have one or 2 of those goofy little gunboats from escaping a couple harbor photo-recon missions.

Nice thing about DDs, and other escorts, except for the Akizuki type, the others go down with one fish. The Akizuki can sometimes take a second to coax them beneath the waves.

So either I'm very brave, or very foolish!. But I do get my share of depth chargings! Best way to keep them coming at you, is go to flank speed, and don't be on silent running. Once a merchant or larger warship takes a hit, they know there's a sub around somewhere. Have yor stern tubes ready, and use the "Q" key to open the tubes. Have your stern facing them, prefferably heading away from the recent action. Depending on the time of the war, set your torpedo depth accordingly. Be patient, Draw them in! If you set your scope so it's just above the surface so no water splashes or runs off it, they usualy won't fire any guns at you.

The best distance to fire at them is between 500 and 600 yards. Anywhere in there does the trick. But you also need to use fast speed settings on the torpedoes too.

By the time they react, it's usually way too late.

If you do it right, you can sometimes get 2 of them before having to scramble for the deeper regions. Once you get your preferred depth, then go silent, and make whatever moves you have to do to shake them off.

I like DD hunting personally! Kinda reminds me of bear hunting with a flintlock. Used to love doin' that too!

[CCIP]

One more thought, and maybe someone else can corroborate this:

I find TMO+RSRD easier than TMO for escorts, and I suspect a large part of it is because the skill rating of escorts is set lower in RSRD, which definitely affects their behaviour.

You might want to give RSRD a try in that case. But if you already use that and it's too difficult, disregard. I actually haven't tried TMO 2.5 yet, but I was under the impression that Ducimius hadn't really changed the AI side of it that much between 2.2 and 2.5

[CCIP]

Oh, and another thing: I think TheDarkWraith's DC water disturbance mod can also ease things up. You should give that one a try, as far as I understand it does not interfere with TMO (other than make them temporarily deaf after depth charge explosions).