What, No Tip? Service Charge Faces Struggle at Restaurants

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

So in your world having to constantly ask for drinks or not getting what was ordered is ok for a tip?

I never said that, did I?
It was about that a service fee is included in the bill. The tip is entirely up to you. The service fee covers that the waiter brought you your meal. Without having it included the waiter might get nothing if guest feels like not paying a voluntary "fee" (I don't mean not only no tip but nothing altogether).

If the service was ok you can can give a tip as a token of appreciation.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

I never said that, did I?
It was about that a service fee is included in the bill. The tip is entirely up to you. The service fee covers that the waiter brought you your meal. Without having it included the waiter might get nothing if guest feels like not paying a voluntary "fee" (I don't mean not only no tip but nothing altogether).

If the service was ok you can can give a tip as a token of appreciation.

Uhhh the severs generally earn a salary. That salary is low due to their anticipation of making up the difference through tipping.

Service fees are included in any bill for anything. Buy a jug of milk and your paying not just for the milk but the container, the farmer, the trucker, the botteling plant, and on and on. Same with resteraunts your not just paying for the slab of meat but the guy that cooks it, the gas used to cook it, and so on.


Order a glass of milk in a resteraunt you pay all that and then give a tip to the person whom brought it to you.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

I never said that, did I?
It was about that a service fee is included in the bill. The tip is entirely up to you. The service fee covers that the waiter brought you your meal. Without having it included the waiter might get nothing if guest feels like not paying a voluntary "fee" (I don't mean not only no tip but nothing altogether).

If the service was ok you can can give a tip as a token of appreciation.

The service fee is bogus IMO. It gives the server wide range in doing the job correctly or not doing such a good job. Then add more for a tip? Smells rotten to me.

[Skybird]

A waiter does his job, like a worker, a driver, a teacher. He invests also time during his shift in which he is not free to be "private" and do what he wants. So in general he should be payed by his boss per hour, not per guest, like any other employee, too. A tip should not enable him to make the living he needs, because his job wages should take care of that, if he is full time worker. That'S how I egnerally feel about it, and feel about things to be just and fair: if somebody does a full time job, his employer should pay him so that he can make a monthly living from that. Of course, like any employee, a waiter is expeted both by his boss and the guest to to a reasonably good job. And if he does not, he gets fired.

A tip is just an additonal and voluntary expression from a guest that he was pleased by the service. It is voluntary, and a gesture of good will and thankfulness. Not more. Or as Schroeder said: a token of appreciation.

But in many places and countries/local cultures, it is expected, and taken as granted. This smells wrong for me.

That'S why I do not accept local rules like "10/15/20% of the bill's value" should be given as a tip if you stay in this or that country.

Beyond that I must say that prices for restaurants in general have become so high that for me it is not worth it. I do not have the feeling that the money I have to invest gets a good return in value. The business has gotten pretty much porked, imo. That restaurasnt owners may say that their running costs are such and such, only means that their running costs contribute to the reason why the whole business branch got porked.

[AVGWarhawk]

@Skybird,

That is how it is done here in the state. I was a mechanic for Goodyear and I had a base pay of $200.00/week. The rest was commission pay. There are a lot of jobs here in the US that run the same gambit with base pay and commission. The only difference is the waiter gets a 'tip' instead of a commission. As a mechanic I got my commission on the work performed. My tip was having the customer come back for additional work, work on another vehicle of theirs or they told a friend. It paid for me to fix it right the first time on time. It pays for the waiter to serve it the first time on time and with a smile. Simple as that. If I screwed his car up it was very possible he got refunded and I got docked the pay for the work. Same with a waiter. He/she screws it up they get docked their tip.

[Skybird]

Yes, I heared that it is olike this in the US, but I do not know to what degree I can generalise it: if it is just in some regions like that, or in all America. Although it sounds sensible at first, I also see the backside of the it, and that is that it opens door and gate to excessive exploitation of employees, and busioness making a profit from not paying employees enough, with the share that is theirs being sacked by somebody else. I have been subject of such practices, too. I am no fan of wokring on commission. The ammount of the abuse it allows outweighs the gains in motivation, imo. And I live by the idea that if I work for soembody else, and do what is considered a regular full time job according to the standards of my living place, let'S say 5.5 days a week, 8 hours per day, this should mean that I get a regular payment by my employer that makes sure that I can can live from ma hand'S work for him and from my lifetime I invest and that is not free to me. What is beyiond a basic fee like this may be seen as luxury and thus object to customer' fairness. Because who says they are fair? Especially when they are low on money themselves? There are many people in oiur egoistic society who just sack in what they can grab and then run and hide, not caring gfor others. That's why in europe we have stronger sympathy than you guys in America for some basic things not being voluntary only, but obligatory. It helps to curb the wild beast capitalism's natural egoism a bit more. But both shouldn't be exaggerated, the European and the American way. Unlimited socialism does work as bad as unlimited egoism does. There must be found a golden path in the middle to keep a balance between legitimate interests of the individual and legitimate interests of the community.

15% minimum. If its a delivery (pizza, Chinese) and the weather is inclement, which is why its being delivered in the first place, the percentage increases. At a sitdown place, 15%-20% depending how the service is, and perhaps who I'm trying to impress (if ya get my meaning).

[Task Force]

(even tho my parents leave the tip...)

I myself leave a tip depending on afiew factors.

1. servers attutude, if the server gives me a BS attutude, they will get a BS tip...

2. did they get me my drink and food right or did they screw up.

3. how much did they do.

4.did they forget about me...

in the end If they meet all these then I will give em... 4 dollars max.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yes, I heared that it is olike this in the US, but I do not know to what degree I can generalise it: if it is just in some regions like that, or in all America. Although it sounds sensible at first, I also see the backside of the it, and that is that it opens door and gate to excessive exploitation of employees, and busioness making a profit from not paying employees enough, with the share that is theirs being sacked by somebody else. I have been subject of such practices, too. I am no fan of wokring on commission. The ammount of the abuse it allows outweighs the gains in motivation, imo. And I live by the idea that if I work for soembody else, and do what is considered a regular full time job according to the standards of my living place, let'S say 5.5 days a week, 8 hours per day, this should mean that I get a regular payment by my employer that makes sure that I can can live from ma hand'S work for him and from my lifetime I invest and that is not free to me. What is beyiond a basic fee like this may be seen as luxury and thus object to customer' fairness. Because who says they are fair? Especially when they are low on money themselves? There are many people in oiur egoistic society who just sack in what they can grab and then run and hide, not caring gfor others. That's why in europe we have stronger sympathy than you guys in America for some basic things not being voluntary only, but obligatory. It helps to curb the wild beast capitalism's natural egoism a bit more. But both shouldn't be exaggerated, the European and the American way. Unlimited socialism does work as bad as unlimited egoism does. There must be found a golden path in the middle to keep a balance between legitimate interests of the individual and legitimate interests of the community.

Well if said employee feels exploited then he/she should look for a new job. There is always that option. Does it motivate? In most cases yes. In commission work does it motivate the employee to drum up work that does not need to be done so as to get paid commission? In the auto industry...certainly. At any rate, the folks knew the deal going into accepting the job. I worked as a bus boy for three friggin days and dumped that job like a bad habit. Really, it is what they want to make of it. I did well as a mechanic. I repaired what needed to be repaired and did it right the first time. Customers returned for other work and requested me. The only thing about commission work is attempting to balance a home budget. You can not when your week to week pay changes. Lets look at this way, if the tips really sucked there would not be any waiters/waitress'. There are plenty and I think the generosity is there concerning tips.

[Kapt Z]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

It makes sense. The cost on the menu is the cost of the food. The tip is the cost of the service and that's up to the customer to determine the quality of and the size of the tip reflects it.

That sums it up for me.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Well if said employee feels exploited then he/she should look for a new job. There is always that option. Does it motivate? In most cases yes. In commission work does it motivate the employee to drum up work that does not need to be done so as to get paid commission? In the auto industry...certainly. At any rate, the folks knew the deal going into accepting the job. I worked as a bus boy for three friggin days and dumped that job like a bad habit. Really, it is what they want to make of it. I did well as a mechanic. I repaired what needed to be repaired and did it right the first time. Customers returned for other work and requested me. The only thing about commission work is attempting to balance a home budget. You can not when your week to week pay changes. Lets look at this way, if the tips really sucked there would not be any waiters/waitress'. There are plenty and I think the generosity is there concerning tips.

That choice of freely take and leave jobs - is not a given for more and more people. they must just take what is available - if there is something available. In Germany we have the phenomenen of socalled 1-Euro-jobs. that are jobs recevers of social wellfare that have not managed to find oridnary, regular payed jobs are allowed to pick up (in order to not exceed the limits below which they can receive social wellfare, or as we call it: Hartz-IV payments. You are right, there are comynies that let them do their work and pay them one Euro per hour. That borders slavery. Now the point is that due to this siotuation, more and more comanies kill regular jobs, and declare 1-Euro-jobs. regular jobs get ikilled, 1-Euro jobs boom. Economic structures get established that depend on being allowed to just pay 1 euro in order to prosper, else they could not survuve and maintain these jobs. "That kills jobs!" that way becomes the argument why regular payed jobs shall not be supported by legislation, and why more 1 euzro jobs should be allowed. It is a vicious circle: people cannot afford not to work for just one lousy euro per hour, what they ened additonally is payed by public taxes, taxes shring because more and mor epeople cannot pay taxes, because more and more they work in cheap labour or 1-Euro jobs, who kill regular jobs.... The structural integrity of social communties get destroyed this way, ironically for that reason of - creating jobs. 1-Euro jobs. Fan-tas-tic. Even more, people in such jobs rightfully feel like slaves, and exploited, and many of their employers make a win by exploiting them. they do not have the freedom to just quit, and try something else, even more so if there have been better times when they had founded families for which they still are responsible after their jobs by which they have fed them got killed. which only confirms what I have said in various context often now: that there is no freedom if you are not strong in options between you can choose. People who have no options, are weak. And they are not free to reject a job just becasue they don't like it. It is a dependence of theirs that often - and more and more often - gets shamelessly exploited. And you have the nerve to generalise and just tell people not having a choice they should quit and find another job? One needs to be able to afford that, you know. And many can't. That'S why they do lousy work for one shabby Euro per hour. the government said when they invented this insane rule that they hope it would pave the way for people into regular jobs again. We know by now that this is wrong in the overwhelking majority of cases. Not only does it not pavve the way into regular contracts - it even kills regular contracts and replaces them with more modern slavery like this. Whole economic branches, especially in the service industry, are parasyting from this constellation without any scruples.

[Fincuan]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Ow boy, I wouldnt even go to a restaurant with that name.

Lmao

Apparently they haven't consulted any Finns before deciding on the name...

[RickC Sniper]

My base is 15%. I give more if the service is great, less if I feel they didn't earn it by being prompt or attentive enough.

I hate the concept of tips, period but I have a son who works weekends at a hotel\restaurant and he works damn hard for what he gets.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by RickC Sniper

I hate the concept of tips, period but I have a son who works weekends at a hotel\restaurant and he works damn hard for what he gets.

Agreed. I'd gladly welcome the whole system being scrapped and the tip being added into the menu price and have the wait staff paid a living wage instead of their $4900 a year "salary".

[antikristuseke]

I only tip if the service is good, but generaly dont go to places where people wait on me.