[REL] Historically accurate 4-Bladed propellers for all Subs - Page 3

kapitan_zur_see · 01-23-08, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donner

I am impatiently waiting on more info on his Narwhal creation!

I'm currently working very hard on it

It got me to learn lots of new things about modelling in 3DSmax. You see, modelling some propellers is one thing, but an entirely new submarine from scratch is very very hard lol It just that i have to practice some more :hmm:
But eventually, i think i'll manage (i hope at least lol)
I do have a kinda nice blueprint with left and top view of a narwhal, but infortunately not front view wich makes things harder.
If anyone has any good pics, blueprints whatever usefull... think about me

Torps · 01-23-08, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donner

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

Nice mod, but a problem. The porpoise, Sargo, and Tambor, had three bladed props. The four bladed did not come out until the advent of the Gato class. All boats after had the four bladed model.

Correct! According to Norman Friedman, author of US Submarines Through 1945: An Illustrated Design History, three bladed props were the norm until Gato-class. I find no mention of five-bladed props for the Balao's. Perhaps this was done after the war?

Cheers!

Also around 1943-1944 all US Sub types which under went refit, had been upgraded with 4 the blade props

.

Capt Jack Harkness · 01-27-08, 06:17 AM

Not to nitpick, but were the boats' props really that crudded up? And the props are rotating backwards... They are on the right shafts with the right pitches, but the shafts are spinning the wrong way (just like vanilla). Anyways, nice work on the model/texture, hope we can find a proper fix for this problem...

Oh and someone mentioned 5-blade props on some Balaos: The post-war Tench class and some Guppy converted Balaos had 5-bladers, not the wartime boats.

andycaccia · 01-27-08, 07:00 AM

Nice Model!

skwasjer · 01-27-08, 07:02 AM

To swap the prop direction try swap the x-offset values of the nodes for left and right prop. Iow. you want to move the left prop to the right location, and vice versa. You'd have to change the pitch again as well though (either in 3D suite or you can try rotation -XZ?). This is a bit of a hack, but I haven't investigated if there are other ways to do this... Just an idea

andycaccia · 01-27-08, 08:13 AM

I guess I could use S3ditor to do that, I could try and see what happens. Confronting stock game sh4 and the 4 blade mod I noticed that the propellers blades had the same direction, while they were inverted in the popular propeller fix mod (later included in some other works)...hope it works.

Thanks skwasjer...from the Olympus...a true Deus Ex Machina...indeed.

andycaccia · 01-27-08, 08:37 AM

IT WORKS!!!

Just swapped the X Offset values in the nodes and now the propellers are fine.

Excellent idea skwasjer, thank you again.

Sailor Steve · 01-27-08, 01:50 PM

A lot of work for something that we'll never see.

External view? What's that?:rotfl:

Aw, who am I kidding? This is great! Thanks for all the trouble, KzS.

Canonicus · 01-27-08, 03:19 PM

FYI....Make sure to swap the "XZ" values or the prop shafts wont be seated in there stern tubes correctly. I found this out after making the "X" changes to the Porpoise class subs.

Cheers!

andycaccia · 01-27-08, 03:39 PM

I tested the Gato class with the X offset inverted and It looks fine. Did not touch anything else at the moment. I will change all subs when I have a free minute (penal law is hard to study

)...

Canonicus, are you sure you swapped the right offset values? My changes are OK, on the gato class at least..

skwasjer · 01-27-08, 04:34 PM

[edit] There's one but... The .zon file needs to be corrected as well. Moving the visual object (3D model) requires the SH3ZonesCtrl to be swapped as well. I think the easiest way to do this is by swapping the parent id's between the two controllers that are linked to the props. Also, I have no idea what the effect of a broken prop is (iow. the wrong prop may be broken). I suggest one of you tests this out before making this change across all submarines...

That, or investigate other (better?) ways of changing rotation direction... I have no other ideas though...

Canonicus · 01-27-08, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andycaccia

I tested the Gato class with the X offset inverted and It looks fine. Did not touch anything else at the moment. I will change all subs when I have a free minute (penal law is hard to study

)...

Canonicus, are you sure you swapped the right offset values? My changes are OK, on the gato class at least..

Yes...I had to make the "XZ" swap after I noticed that the ends of the prop shafts, where they enter the subs hull, were sticking out and not aligned properly with the stern tubes.

I had to do this for the Porpoise class only.

Gato, Balao... looked fine.

Cheers!

kapitan_zur_see · 01-27-08, 05:12 PM

well done

but if you just invert, then the 3dmodel will be wrong lol (blades pitch not correct...)

rascal101 · 01-27-08, 07:33 PM

Perhaps I'm having a bad hair day, I cant seem to find the dl link for this mod covering all sub props, I dont see a link for it

Quote:

Originally Posted by kapitan_zur_see

Hi, mates

Okay some of you already read that... but for the newcommers:

Hi captains!

Following some very stubborned attempts at importing a 3dmodel inside SH4 and making its texture to work, i've finally made it

I've had to deal with certain restrictions so as for now, it doesn't quite match the level of quality we'll be able to reach in a near future, especially regarding how light reacts on the model... But can't say i'm quite proud :rotfl:Skwasjer will know why lol

Ok, as some of you may already knows, US submarines of that era were using 4 blades propellers during war instead of the 3 blades one the devs modelled. So i've modelled one myself and got it retextured. Propellers have now their own separate texture also instead of sharing a tiny part of the hull general texture (hence very low-res).

Subs included are Tambor, Gato, Balao, Porpoise, Salmon and Sargo class
However, for now on, i've not included S-Class subs since i doubt they were fitted with such propellers (being rather used as old training platforms, i think)

Features:

New 3D 4-bladed propeller model
Hi-res texture (1024x1024) for best close-up details
Correct pitch for left and right propellers (fix vanilla model)
100% ROW compatible

After/Before screenies (previous lower-res version)

It's 100% latest ROW COMPATIBLE. All you have to do is installing it AFTER ROW (or ROW would overwrite it...). Use JSGME...

...CLICK ON THE PROPELLERS TO DOWNLOAD...

4Shared.com Megaupload.com Rapidshare.com

Have fun using this!
Special thanks for Skwas and his fantastic S3D

Capt Jack Harkness · 01-27-08, 07:51 PM

You need to click one of the three prop pictures under the server you want to download from.

And the X swap is only a band aid for the problem. As I've said, the props are mounted and pitched correctly the way they are, it just so happens that Ubi made the shafts spin the wrong way.

However, since the direction of shaft rotation does not change when the props are swapped, is there a way to swap the shafts instead of the props? Or maybe swap the engines/motors or something? That said, does anyone know what code determines the direction of the props/shafts?

01-27-08, 06:17 AM	#33
Capt Jack Harkness Samurai Navy Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 567 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 1	Not to nitpick, but were the boats' props really that crudded up? And the props are rotating backwards... They are on the right shafts with the right pitches, but the shafts are spinning the wrong way (just like vanilla). Anyways, nice work on the model/texture, hope we can find a proper fix for this problem... Oh and someone mentioned 5-blade props on some Balaos: The post-war Tench class and some Guppy converted Balaos had 5-bladers, not the wartime boats. Last edited by Capt Jack Harkness; 01-27-08 at 06:42 AM.

01-27-08, 07:00 AM	#34
andycaccia XO Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Italy Posts: 418 Downloads: 261 Uploads: 2	Nice Model! __________________ "Memento Audere Semper"

01-27-08, 07:02 AM	#35
skwasjer The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,549 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 3	To swap the prop direction try swap the x-offset values of the nodes for left and right prop. Iow. you want to move the left prop to the right location, and vice versa. You'd have to change the pitch again as well though (either in 3D suite or you can try rotation -XZ?). This is a bit of a hack, but I haven't investigated if there are other ways to do this... Just an idea __________________ S3D - Silent 3ditor (v0.9.9) - S3D homepage - Open sourced S3D file parser API's - SUBSIM thread SH5 mods: Speech Recognition for SH5 \| Digital UI Clock Tutorials: [TEC] Import/export 3D models to/from game using S3D [TEC] How to work with the model viewer in S3D - VIDEO

01-27-08, 08:13 AM	#36
andycaccia XO Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Italy Posts: 418 Downloads: 261 Uploads: 2	I guess I could use S3ditor to do that, I could try and see what happens. Confronting stock game sh4 and the 4 blade mod I noticed that the propellers blades had the same direction, while they were inverted in the popular propeller fix mod (later included in some other works)...hope it works. Thanks skwasjer...from the Olympus...a true Deus Ex Machina...indeed. __________________ "Memento Audere Semper"

01-27-08, 08:37 AM	#37
andycaccia XO Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Italy Posts: 418 Downloads: 261 Uploads: 2	IT WORKS!!! Just swapped the X Offset values in the nodes and now the propellers are fine. Excellent idea skwasjer, thank you again. __________________ "Memento Audere Semper"

01-27-08, 01:50 PM	#38
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	A lot of work for something that we'll never see. External view? What's that?:rotfl: Aw, who am I kidding? This is great! Thanks for all the trouble, KzS. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

01-27-08, 03:19 PM	#39
Canonicus XO Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: In your baffles... Posts: 434 Downloads: 624 Uploads: 7	FYI....Make sure to swap the "XZ" values or the prop shafts wont be seated in there stern tubes correctly. I found this out after making the "X" changes to the Porpoise class subs. Cheers!

01-27-08, 03:39 PM	#40
andycaccia XO Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Italy Posts: 418 Downloads: 261 Uploads: 2	I tested the Gato class with the X offset inverted and It looks fine. Did not touch anything else at the moment. I will change all subs when I have a free minute (penal law is hard to study )... Canonicus, are you sure you swapped the right offset values? My changes are OK, on the gato class at least.. __________________ "Memento Audere Semper"

01-27-08, 04:34 PM	#41
skwasjer The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,549 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 3	[edit] There's one but... The .zon file needs to be corrected as well. Moving the visual object (3D model) requires the SH3ZonesCtrl to be swapped as well. I think the easiest way to do this is by swapping the parent id's between the two controllers that are linked to the props. Also, I have no idea what the effect of a broken prop is (iow. the wrong prop may be broken). I suggest one of you tests this out before making this change across all submarines... That, or investigate other (better?) ways of changing rotation direction... I have no other ideas though... __________________ S3D - Silent 3ditor (v0.9.9) - S3D homepage - Open sourced S3D file parser API's - SUBSIM thread SH5 mods: Speech Recognition for SH5 \| Digital UI Clock Tutorials: [TEC] Import/export 3D models to/from game using S3D [TEC] How to work with the model viewer in S3D - VIDEO Last edited by skwasjer; 01-27-08 at 04:49 PM.

01-27-08, 05:12 PM	#43
kapitan_zur_see Commodore Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: France Posts: 614 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	well done but if you just invert, then the 3dmodel will be wrong lol (blades pitch not correct...) __________________

01-27-08, 07:51 PM	#45
Capt Jack Harkness Samurai Navy Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 567 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 1	You need to click one of the three prop pictures under the server you want to download from. And the X swap is only a band aid for the problem. As I've said, the props are mounted and pitched correctly the way they are, it just so happens that Ubi made the shafts spin the wrong way. However, since the direction of shaft rotation does not change when the props are swapped, is there a way to swap the shafts instead of the props? Or maybe swap the engines/motors or something? That said, does anyone know what code determines the direction of the props/shafts?