All members read this - Page 24

Kpt. Lehmann · 07-05-08, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MONOLITH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

You people should be ashamed how you treat others.

Really?

Go have dinner, I'll be back in 30 minutes with 1000 obnoxious Lehmann quotes.

*fires up the search function*

Likewise, and a threat of violence by you that was brushed under the rug... (veiled or otherwise, it is what it is)... similar to the same that occurred with BBW some time ago when he collected a threat of physical harm.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=105

Regardless of its surroundings... you stooped to the lowest of low, Monolith.

Any useful discussion with you is entirely hopeless.

@JCC... in reference to your PM to me:

"Wow, another useful post from 'moderator' JCC
You are really close to the line.

Walk away"

You've already made up your mind and it is rather transparent given the timing of your various saber rattlings that you are yourself biased against anything meaningful I might have to add, and possibly other GWX members. Just as we are about to get to the nuts and bolts of possible solutions, you just had to knock over the apple cart.

To borrow your own words JCC, you have the 'unmittigated gall' to send that PM to me alone after all that has transpired on this thread?

Now as much as you've let Ducimus run at the mouth without doing something about it... (beyond a single paltry five-day brig session) ... if you are going to "ban me" then do so. If you want us to respect your 'authority' then lose the bias. Moderate both sides.

Just three days ago, during a phone conversation with Neal Stevens, he posed an honest question to me. (Maybe it was rhetorical... I'm not sure)
"Maybe it would be beneficial to just open a thread and let everyone bash each other's brains out until they reach common ground out of exhaustion."

My response was, "God, I hope not."

Secondarily, TWICE now without any prodding from me, Neal offered to build a public SH4 GWX DEVELOPMENT forum here at SS.

Both times, without conferring with the GWX Mod team I immediately deflected the idea by stating that such a thing would only benefit GWX... not the ATO community at large. If such a new public forum is constructed, it should be for the entire ATO modding interest relating to the SH4 platform.... not just GWX.

Neal will confirm this on his return.

How's that coming from Kpt. Lehmann the power hungry egotist?

@ Mush Martin... will PM you my email addy. I imagine I'm about to be banned. Will reply to you as soon as circumstance permits.

Suicide Charlie · 07-05-08, 06:31 PM

I have an idea. Since none of you can seem to cool it and have even go so far as to insult those who wish to resolve this quietly and quickly I suggest Neal throw you all in the Brig for 24-48 hours. Maybe then you'll stop crying like a bunch of egotistical self-centered brats.

Penelope, I don't know you and I love GWX's work, but if you want your team and peers to get/give the respect you believe you deserve (and rightfully so) then you need to learn to stop trying to get the last word in and refute every little sentence. Make your suggestions for a resolution and be done with it. The only person that keeps things going no matter who brings up what is yourself.

Monolith, the same goes for you, dude. You guys have got to learn that you're both arguing the same thing over and over. You both want respect. You both clam the other doesn't give it. You both claim you want a resolution. And you both are preventing that from happening.

You both want the samething, but you're so blinded by meaningless bantering and quips to see it. It is so frustrating and stupid to see each of you claim that you want peace and quiet, but you say that it is somebody else responsibilty to do their part. WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF. If you guys stopped nitpicking at each other and just let the past be the past and move on this would be fixed already.

There's no reason that the moderators should have to catch flak from any of you in public. We all have biases, but this thread is supposed to move all parties involved toward a nuetral standing and help the moderators in their job.

Nothing is going to change until each of you recognizes your part in this.

AVGWarhawk · 07-05-08, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

........ Most went back to SH3. Some stuck it out and attempted to salvage what they could. It is darn nice game now with the patches and mods. To further that notion, the devs sent out discs and goodies to a select few that did stick with it, defended it and worked with them to clean it up. I was a happy recipient of that package myself. I received some darn nice things from them. So, I do not buy KL representation in this matter.

Thanks for the explanation. Thankfully, I wasn't around for most of that. I do remember some pretty nasty stabs in the regular forum. Just for the record, the "community" that I speak of whenever I speak of community are the select few who stuck it out and tried to make the best of it.

Now all I need to know is who "you people" are.

I suspect the 'you people' are the SH4 folks and modders. Again, a biased comment. First day learning the new ropes for all so we let it slide. It was very ugly DT. The UBI forums were much worse. Tar/feathers, drawn and quartered, gutted and then burned at the stake. But, as I stated a select few stuck it out. Some worked with the developers (Leo Vampire/Dave Bunnell saved the devs months of work by his ROW creation and is credited in the Uboat release). A class act by the devs. Dave has passed away as you know. The other select few who added and prodded it along received a nice package from UBI. Sincere appreciation for taking a few shots by others. These shots were taken daily. Defending the game as best that it could be, working out issues, getting a patch or two in the works. It all worked out in the end. It was nice of the modders to help polish it up a bit so the uboat could be introduced. UBI attempting to think of everyone.

Mush Martin · 07-05-08, 06:32 PM

Have you ever considered .....

the episode of BSG where they set up a boxing ring
on the flightdeck.

all were welcome to throw there dogtags into the hat
and for as long as the tags were in they or anyone else
could have a go in challenge with who they wanted.

taking it off the flightline and into the ring so to speak.

I think they called it having a dance.

why not a dance thread.

Banished with permissions to stay in dialogue only on one thread with
your opponent until a detente is reached. in this proposal naturally
adversaries would need to resolve and ally to be reinstated.

in effect they would need each other and necessity is the mother
of invention. at that point they would find a way or not.

so I propose a dance thread kept down on the Subsims forum.

the reason being that despite all the detriment in this thread
there is some good in the bloodletting.
:hmm:M

AVGWarhawk · 07-05-08, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Quote:

Originally Posted by MONOLITH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

You people should be ashamed how you treat others.

Really?

Go have dinner, I'll be back in 30 minutes with 1000 obnoxious Lehmann quotes.

*fires up the search function*

Likewise, and a threat of violence by you that was brushed under the rug... (veiled or otherwise, it is what it is)... similar to the same that occurred with BBW some time ago when he collected a threat of physical harm.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=105

Regardless of its surroundings... you stooped to the lowest of low, Monolith.

Any useful discussion with you is entirely hopeless.

@JCC... in reference to your PM to me:

"Wow, another useful post from 'moderator' JCC
You are really close to the line.

Walk away"

You've already made up your mind and it is rather transparent given the timing of your various saber rattlings that you are yourself biased against anything meaningful I might have to add, and possibly other GWX members. Just as we are about to get to the nuts and bolts of possible solutions, you just had to knock over the apple cart.

To borrow your own words JCC, you have the 'unmittigated gall' to send that PM to me alone after all that has transpired on this thread?

Now as much as you've let Ducimus run at the mouth without doing something about it... (beyond a single paltry five-day brig session) ... if you are going to "ban me" then do so. If you want us to respect your 'authority' then lose the bias. Moderate both sides.

Just three days ago, during a phone conversation with Neal Stevens, he posed an honest question to me. (Maybe it was rhetorical... I'm not sure)
"Maybe it would be beneficial to just open a thread and let everyone bash each other's brains out until they reach common ground out of exhaustion."

My response was, "God, I hope not."

Secondarily, TWICE now without any prodding from me, Neal offered to build a public SH4 GWX DEVELOPMENT forum here at SS.

Both times, without conferring with the GWX Mod team I immediately deflected the idea by stating that such a thing would only benefit GWX... not the ATO community at large. If such a new public forum is constructed, it should be for the entire ATO modding interest relating to the SH4 platform.... not just GWX.

Neal will confirm this on his return.

How's that coming from Kpt. Lehmann the power hungry egotist?

@ Mush Martin... will PM you my email addy. I imagine I'm about to be banned. Will reply to you as soon as circumstance permits.

Ok, Monolith take the neutral corner. Penelope went for a breather. I recommend you do the same. KL, I agree with your answer to Neal. Have the GWX thread in the open SH4 uboat mod forum. Worked fine before and should work now.

Mush Martin · 07-05-08, 06:43 PM

@ Monolith ..... follow the lead dood use the search funtion to find
something you did in the past put it on the table and say apologize
to whoever it was.

How else is it going to move forward.

Regards
M

Penelope_Grey · 07-05-08, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicide Charlie

Penelope, I don't know you and I love GWX's work, but if you want your team and peers to get/give the respect you believe you deserve (and rightfully so) then you need to learn to stop trying to get the last word in and refute every little sentence. Make your suggestions for a resolution and be done with it. The only person that keeps things going no matter who brings up what is yourself.

I have done. Right here... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=309

As far as refuting every little sentence goes. Wouldn't you if you were in my shoes? If you were part of something that was doing something you loved? I'm not perfect, but I stick up for what I believe in and what I see is right, that is subsim and the rep of the Grey Wolves. Neal himself said that we rarely initiate these fights but we do fight in them that much is true. Nobody in GWX enjoys the fight... but situations have resulted in us having to fight our corner for ourselves and the team as a whole.

I believe in a brigher tomorrow. So much so to the point I said I am getting out of the ring and leaving mudchuckers intent on further GWX bashing to the staff. Not much more as one person I can do. That is what the staff want of Grey Wolves members... that is what I am doing/have done.

I am only speaking to you out of courtesy as you addressed me, not refutation

Mush Martin · 07-05-08, 06:46 PM

Ive never been refuted by penny, I would generally consider myself
historically antagonistic of some members of GWX but not a detractor
of the team or there work.

True
M

Kpt. Lehmann · 07-05-08, 06:49 PM

Roger AVG, will do.

Have sent you PM in case of my banning by JCC... which I am absolutely willing to accept. Infact I am wondering why I haven't been banned yet, given his threats.

Give me a few minutes to piece together the "good stuff" and I'll get it posted as far as I can unless JCC keelhauls me first.

bigboywooly · 07-05-08, 06:49 PM

Are we done here yet ?
Takedas 5 point plan gets my vote

Now wheres those cakes MM posted

Mush Martin · 07-05-08, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Infact I am wondering why I haven't been banned yet
.

Well we all wonder that KL :rotfl:

Curse you all I just spilled my stella

back later
M

Penelope_Grey · 07-05-08, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

Are we done here yet ?
Takedas 5 point plan gets my vote

Now wheres those cakes MM posted

Screw the cakes, I want either a menthol cigarette or a cigar... STAT!!!

STAT...I always wanted to say that word.

Cake will do if the former are not available.

Oh yes and 5 point plan by Takeda, yes

I also want to publically thank the guy too for cutting through this thread like he did and giving an answer good for all. Mind you he moderates General topics... This must have been a piece of cake for him! Tee Hee.

Kudos.

AVGWarhawk · 07-05-08, 06:59 PM

Anyway, I off for a while. My head hurts. I have a torn rotator cuff and my right hand is now swollen from clicking the damn mouse and using the keyboard all day. Can you keep it nice for a while?

Kpt. Lehmann · 07-05-08, 07:02 PM

1) I'll have to go back and look at Takeda Shingen's posts, but in a general sense I agree with his ideas in spirit... specifically I now wholeheartedly believe that given the collective modding power represented by the entirety of the ATO enthusiasts... that a separate and equal modding forum is really the way to go.

2) Since so many people look at the GWX dev team in a negative light and view them as greedy etc... I'll write up a post describing why and how/why the GWX team operates the way it does as best I can in hopes of getting people to understand the team's methodology. It won't be put up for debate, or in a manner designed to insult, as the team exists in an environment that produces consistent results... but again... the hope is that at least maybe people will better understand the team. Some will not like it, but that is okay. The GWX team cannot make everyone happy.

Lost my train... will post more in a bit as I remember them.

Digital_Trucker · 07-05-08, 07:02 PM

@MM The only problem I can see with that one is best described by an old running buddy of mine who once told me that "Arguing with a truck driver is like wrestling with a pig in muck. After a couple hours, you realize that the pig enjoys it":rotfl:. I'd never escape.

Seriously, there is value to be gained from bloodletting. After enough is let, the will to cut diminishes.

@AVG I remember making a few posts in defense of the devs at the end of that. Undeservedly, I thought, I was included in that list of folks who were rewarded for sticking with the game and the devs. And yes, I knew exactly who the "you people" were when I asked the question. I only mentioned it, not in it's racial context, but in the context that one standard of behavior is being condemned (prejudging all members of a group) while that exact same standard of behavior is being practiced by the condemner (again, I don't feel like checking the spelling). I just wanted to hear the explanation from KL. I don't know enough to have any axes to grind, I can only see what folks do, not what they did (and try to temper that with the fact that tempers are flared here).

As usual, I type too slow (or is it think too slow), too much happens between beginning of thought and "preview post".

07-05-08, 06:31 PM	#347
Suicide Charlie Wild Night in Bangkok Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 179 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I have an idea. Since none of you can seem to cool it and have even go so far as to insult those who wish to resolve this quietly and quickly I suggest Neal throw you all in the Brig for 24-48 hours. Maybe then you'll stop crying like a bunch of egotistical self-centered brats. Penelope, I don't know you and I love GWX's work, but if you want your team and peers to get/give the respect you believe you deserve (and rightfully so) then you need to learn to stop trying to get the last word in and refute every little sentence. Make your suggestions for a resolution and be done with it. The only person that keeps things going no matter who brings up what is yourself. Monolith, the same goes for you, dude. You guys have got to learn that you're both arguing the same thing over and over. You both want respect. You both clam the other doesn't give it. You both claim you want a resolution. And you both are preventing that from happening. You both want the samething, but you're so blinded by meaningless bantering and quips to see it. It is so frustrating and stupid to see each of you claim that you want peace and quiet, but you say that it is somebody else responsibilty to do their part. WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF. If you guys stopped nitpicking at each other and just let the past be the past and move on this would be fixed already. There's no reason that the moderators should have to catch flak from any of you in public. We all have biases, but this thread is supposed to move all parties involved toward a nuetral standing and help the moderators in their job. Nothing is going to change until each of you recognizes your part in this. __________________

07-05-08, 06:32 PM	#349
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	an afterthought Have you ever considered ..... the episode of BSG where they set up a boxing ring on the flightdeck. all were welcome to throw there dogtags into the hat and for as long as the tags were in they or anyone else could have a go in challenge with who they wanted. taking it off the flightline and into the ring so to speak. I think they called it having a dance. why not a dance thread. Banished with permissions to stay in dialogue only on one thread with your opponent until a detente is reached. in this proposal naturally adversaries would need to resolve and ally to be reinstated. in effect they would need each other and necessity is the mother of invention. at that point they would find a way or not. so I propose a dance thread kept down on the Subsims forum. the reason being that despite all the detriment in this thread there is some good in the bloodletting. :hmm:M __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

07-05-08, 06:43 PM	#351
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	@ Monolith ..... follow the lead dood use the search funtion to find something you did in the past put it on the table and say apologize to whoever it was. How else is it going to move forward. Regards M __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

07-05-08, 06:46 PM	#353
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Ive never been refuted by penny, I would generally consider myself historically antagonistic of some members of GWX but not a detractor of the team or there work. True M __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

07-05-08, 06:49 PM	#354
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 6,996 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	Roger AVG, will do. Have sent you PM in case of my banning by JCC... which I am absolutely willing to accept. Infact I am wondering why I haven't been banned yet, given his threats. Give me a few minutes to piece together the "good stuff" and I'll get it posted as far as I can unless JCC keelhauls me first. __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

07-05-08, 06:49 PM	#355
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Are we done here yet ? Takedas 5 point plan gets my vote Now wheres those cakes MM posted __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

07-05-08, 06:59 PM	#358
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,281 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Anyway, I off for a while. My head hurts. I have a torn rotator cuff and my right hand is now swollen from clicking the damn mouse and using the keyboard all day. Can you keep it nice for a while? __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

07-05-08, 07:02 PM	#359
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 6,996 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	1) I'll have to go back and look at Takeda Shingen's posts, but in a general sense I agree with his ideas in spirit... specifically I now wholeheartedly believe that given the collective modding power represented by the entirety of the ATO enthusiasts... that a separate and equal modding forum is really the way to go. 2) Since so many people look at the GWX dev team in a negative light and view them as greedy etc... I'll write up a post describing why and how/why the GWX team operates the way it does as best I can in hopes of getting people to understand the team's methodology. It won't be put up for debate, or in a manner designed to insult, as the team exists in an environment that produces consistent results... but again... the hope is that at least maybe people will better understand the team. Some will not like it, but that is okay. The GWX team cannot make everyone happy. Lost my train... will post more in a bit as I remember them. __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

07-05-08, 07:02 PM	#360
Digital_Trucker Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Peach State Posts: 4,171 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 10	@MM The only problem I can see with that one is best described by an old running buddy of mine who once told me that "Arguing with a truck driver is like wrestling with a pig in muck. After a couple hours, you realize that the pig enjoys it":rotfl:. I'd never escape. Seriously, there is value to be gained from bloodletting. After enough is let, the will to cut diminishes. @AVG I remember making a few posts in defense of the devs at the end of that. Undeservedly, I thought, I was included in that list of folks who were rewarded for sticking with the game and the devs. And yes, I knew exactly who the "you people" were when I asked the question. I only mentioned it, not in it's racial context, but in the context that one standard of behavior is being condemned (prejudging all members of a group) while that exact same standard of behavior is being practiced by the condemner (again, I don't feel like checking the spelling). I just wanted to hear the explanation from KL. I don't know enough to have any axes to grind, I can only see what folks do, not what they did (and try to temper that with the fact that tempers are flared here). As usual, I type too slow (or is it think too slow), too much happens between beginning of thought and "preview post". __________________ RSM-GIEP-Killflags-LV Tribute-Playable Elco __Peace be with you, Dave.