[WIP] Historical Guns Specs

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by gap

Have you seen these posts:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=237
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=239

Our tests demonstrate that, as far as we set start/end index parameters wisely, falk gun's aiming is quite good, though not as deadly good as in your tests

Try my fix and increase the trav_tolerance and elev_tolerance to 25 or 30

[gap]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Try my fix and increase the trav_tolerance and elev_tolerance to 25 or 30

Whar should I expect

Dunno how much you have gone back reading this thread, but I suspect that trav and elev tolerance are acting as a sort of gyro-stabilization...

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by gap

Whar should I expect

Dunno how much you have gone back reading this thread, but I suspect that trav and elev tolerance are acting as a sort of gyro-stabilization...

Since those values fall under the firing block it should mean that if the gun is anywhere within +- those specs of the target then it can fire

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

Okay.. then continue our games..

If now the sub guns are very accurate then we should reduce their accuracy depending of the weather condition.. I think so..
so.. continuing to test the trav/elev tolerance angles andelevation speed..
what do you think?

Okay, good plan. I would start with trav/elev tolerance at 10 or more km/h wind speed and start/elev speeds as in stock

[gap]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Since those values fall under the firing block it should mean that if the gun is anywhere within +- those specs of the target then it can fire

Okay, a few days ago I was convinced, like you, that tolerance factors were... well, what their name says: the angle from the ideal aim at which the gun would have started firig.

The fact that setting ono of those parameters to 0 prevented guns from firing, even though they kept following the target, had convinced me that I was on the right way.

For testing my theory I set tolerance factors as high as 30, expecting the gun to fire everywhere but at the target, but to my disillusion the aiming wasn't apparently affected.

Nonetheless, I will repeat once more the test with the settings suggested by you, but I am almost sure to know the result

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

Okay, good plan. I would start with trav/elev tolerance at 10 or more km/h wind speed and start/elev speeds as in stock

even with my additional mods they leaving their stations when wind speed is more than 11-12 m/s.. in stock they do it at 5-6 m/s..

TDW, how can we temporarily fix this issue?

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by gap

Okay, a few days ago I was convinced, like you, that tolerance factors were... well, what their name says: the angle from the ideal aim at which the gun would have started firig.

The fact that setting ono of those parameters to 0 prevented guns from firing, even though they kept following the target, had convinced me that I was on the right way.

For testing my theory I set tolerance factors as high as 30, expecting the gun to fire everywhere but at the target, but to my disillusion the aiming wasn't apparently affected.

Nonetheless, I will repeat once more the test with the settings suggested by you, but I am almost sure to know the result

Yes a 0 would mean can't fire because there is no window. I should've said set the windows to a lesser value, you are correct Like 5-10. This forces the gunner to be +- a smaller window before he can fire

[TheDarkWraith]

Here's another tidbit of info: when the airplane's engine (zone) HPs are 0 the game destroys the airplane. So to make them hang around longer and not instantly blow-up we need to set their engine zone HPs higher.

[gap]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Here's another tidbit of info: when the airplane's engine (zone) HPs are 0 the game destroys the airplane. So to make them hang around longer and not instantly blow-up we need to set their engine zone HPs higher.

Nice tip, I will take note of it

by the way first set of tests accomplished:

trav/elev animations masks removed, start/end index parameters set to 0, trav/elev tolerance set to 30. Wind speed set to 5 kph.

Result for 3 tests respectively 17, 29 and 34 rounds to dawn the plane, with order to fire at closing targets at medium range. I will test now with lower tolerance angles...

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by gap

Nice tip, I will take note of it

by the way first set of tests accomplished:

trav/elev animations masks removed, start/end index parameters set to 0, trav/elev tolerance set to 30. Wind speed set to 5 kph.

Result for 3 tests respectively 17, 29 and 34 rounds to dawn the plane, with order to fire at closing targets at medium range. I will test now with lower tolerance angles...

The tolerance angles should only define the window when the AA gunner can fire. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with accuracy. I wonder if these values in Sim.cfg would apply to our AA gunner:

[AI AA guns]
Max error angle=5 ;[deg]
Max fire range=1500 ;[m]
Max fire wait=7 ;[s]

[TheDarkWraith]

Here's ya a good single mission showing the accurate AA guns (modified 20mm_C30 and 20mm_C30_2 files) and how planes can take damage and not instantly blow-up: http://www.mediafire.com/?hdhf27ti3v2h1il

Extract to MODS folder and enable via JSGME. Select the single mission AA AI testing.

In this single mission you are surfaced @ 0 knots. In a short while a biplane will be heading towards you from the west. Man the flak guns and tell the flak gunner to fire at will. Go to external cam and watch the show

[gap]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

The tolerance angles should only define the window when the AA gunner can fire. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with accuracy.

In this case, it would have in indirect impact of gun's accuracy as, I would expect, higher values would determine a wider firing cone and therefore an higher probability to miss the target.

Anyway, these are the results of my last tests. Same settings than beore, except for tolerance factors, both set to 5 (crew veterancy set to compatent, by the way)

51, 40 and 112 to down the plane. Much worse than before. It is to be noted that during these last tests, the gun tended not to adjust its aim when the plane was at close range.

My next test will be with an higher crew veterancy.

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

I wonder if these values in Sim.cfg would apply to our AA gunner:

[AI AA guns]
Max error angle=5 ;[deg]
Max fire range=1500 ;[m]
Max fire wait=7 ;[s]

According to the first test made by Volodya on this topic, seems that not, the aren't applied. But it could be worth retesting them anyway.

Since we are at it, there is another gun-specific parameter called restr_dist (described as 'Restrictions cone size' in meters) which could, I wonder, could also be affeting gun's aiming

[gap]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Here's ya a good single mission showing the accurate AA guns (modified 20mm_C30 and 20mm_C30_2 files) and how planes can take damage and not instantly blow-up: http://www.mediafire.com/?hdhf27ti3v2h1il

Extract to MODS folder and enable via JSGME. Select the single mission AA AI testing.

In this single mission you are surfaced @ 0 knots. In a short while a biplane will be heading towards you from the west. Man the flak guns and tell the flak gunner to fire at will. Go to external cam and watch the show

yes cool

during my last tests with an hurricane the following damages occurred:

propeller damaged and black smoke trail
propeller and a wing damaged, and two black smoke trails
fuel tank damaged: long smoke trail and fire.

Talking about airplanes AI and damage, I have the following remarks:

• airplanes don't give up their attack even when they are heavily damaged. Can you give them a % chance to clear off when they start spurting oil/smoke?
  
  
• similarly, can you set a random chance (possibly veterancy related) that a plane which ran out of bombs/deep charges/torpedoes, clear off the area even if it got machine gun bullets left?
  
  
• the parachute added to them by Fx Update is cool, but it looks a bit odd when it is spawns just on top of water surface. Can you make prevent this from happening? Can you set instead a random chance that a plane damaged and losing altitude spawns a parachute long before it crashes on water.
  
  
• someties the hurricane started firing its guns while approaching the sub, but long before it started its attack dive, as if it was firing at nothing? Can this weird behaviour be fixed?

P.S: If you want to test yourself, here are the missions I and Volodya are using for our tests:

http://rapidshare.com/files/20022559...20Missions.rar

tested with Fx Update and IRAI (latest versions) enabled

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by gap

Talking about airplanes AI and damage, I have the following remarks:

• airplanes don't give up their attack even when they are heavily damaged. Can you give them a % chance to clear off when they start spurting oil/smoke?
  
  
• similarly, can you set a random chance (possibly veterancy related) that a plane which ran out of bombs/deep charges/torpedoes, clear off the area even if it got machine gun bullets left?
  
  
• the parachute added to them by Fx Update is cool, but it looks a bit odd when it is spawns just on top of water surface. Can you make prevent this from happening? Can you set instead a random chance that a plane damaged and losing altitude spawns a parachute long before it crashes on water.
  
  
• someties the hurricane started firing its guns while approaching the sub, but long before it started its attack dive, as if it was firing at nothing? Can this weird behaviour be fixed?

The Airplane AI gives no way to determine the amount of damage to a unit like the ship AI does. Thus many things I wanted to do cannot be done with them. Airplane AI is very limited in the number of functions the devs made available to us.

I cannot even set a random chance with the airplane AI. I cannot even tell how many bombs or guns the airplane AI has left. All I can get gun and bombs wise is can fire guns and can fire bombs. I told you it's very limited what you can do with airplane AI.

I should be able to prevent the parachute from opening past a certain height. I'll look into it.

I'll look at IRAI and see why the airplane would be shooting it guns when it shouldn't be.

[gap]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

[/LIST]The Airplane AI gives no way to determine the amount of damage to a unit like the ship AI does. Thus many things I wanted to do cannot be done with them. Airplane AI is very limited in the number of functions the devs made available to us.

I cannot even set a random chance with the airplane AI. I cannot even tell how many bombs or guns the airplane AI has left. All I can get gun and bombs wise is can fire guns and can fire bombs. I told you it's very limited what you can do with airplane AI.

I should be able to prevent the parachute from opening past a certain height. I'll look into it.

I'll look at IRAI and see why the airplane would be shooting it guns when it shouldn't be.

Oakay

Have you seen the resuts of my last set of tests? Look promising