Active sonar, useful for anything other than basic ranging?

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by suBB

If you can't tell already, I'm an akula skipper, and will be an Ak2 improved skipper in RA(love the digital sonar gear and WAA),

I wonder why ?
The Akula II Improved has finally be pushed into the modern era and has become a much more fearsome adversary for blue side. Not that it wasn't a difficult adversary before, but now if you're blue side its going to be like working in hell to sink it.

[NFunky]

Molon,
Okay, I understand what you meant now, that's a real shame. To put it roughly, either the sensor works too well or not well enough.

Oh well, I did succede in using active in the Kilo today. I'd been searching at 5 kts for some time and when I made a turn an Agosta popped up really loud on my sonars, bearing rate changing fast. I figured he had to have picked me up already seeing as he was so close and I was not traveling at a very stealthy speed, so I pinged him and got a feint blip on his bearing at around 1700m. I fired two USET-80s, one directly on his bearing, one ten degrees left of it (the direction his bearing was changing in), with RTE of 1000. Now that I think about it I probably should have spread the torps even more with him being that close, but I got the kill anyway. Only downside was the damn RA AI never counterfired even though I'm sure he had me on sonar.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by NFunky

Anyone ever use active effectively?

I use it on the FFG at least as much as I use the passive sonar, probably more. With surface ships stealth is not so much of an issue and there's a lot of advantages to going faster, so I tend to go active. Particularly against a quiet diesel electric it's probably the best way to go. I also usually use active sonobuoys against diesel electric submarines.

With submarines the advantages are less clear. I can't think of any time I've used active sonar in a submarine.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

I use it on the FFG at least as much as I use the passive sonar, probably more. With surface ships stealth is not so much of an issue and there's a lot of advantages to going faster, so I tend to go active. Particularly against a quiet diesel electric it's probably the best way to go. I also usually use active sonobuoys against diesel electric submarines.

With submarines the advantages are less clear. I can't think of any time I've used active sonar in a submarine.

I recently played with a 19 year old teen he was controlling the helo and in the second scenario a DDG. I advised him to use active sonar but he stubbornly told me that it's not wise to use the active sonar. It's as if it was a heresy for skimmer to use active sonar to hunt for submarines but to me active sonar perhaps is the primary means of locating subs for surface ships especially when the skimmer is sure of the presence of subs in game.

In the first scenario I was driving the 688i and he couldn't find me inside this bay. In our second game I was driving Type 212A and he was controlling a DDG backed by couple friendy ships and planes.
He got me in less than an hour into the game?? Wtf? No active pinging and I was driving at 7 knots and the non nuclear subs in DWX is a hell lot quieter than their nuclear counterparts and subs in DWX are substantially quieter than in stock or LWAMI.

Anyway he proved to me that he was able to find me passively in our second game though I have my suspicion as the show truth on wasn't locked or maybe he was not. Anyway it was just game for me.

Somebody needs to tell kids these day that going active for skimmer is not a heresy. Kids these days won't listen to anybody.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Castout

I recently played with a 19 year old teen he was controlling the helo and in the second scenario a DDG. I advised him to use active sonar but he stubbornly told me that it's not wise to use the active sonar. It's as if it was a heresy for skimmer to use active sonar to hunt for submarines but to me active sonar perhaps is the primary means of locating subs for surface ships especially when the skimmer is sure of the presence of subs in game.

A lot of the "only use passive sonar" thinking is really a left-over from the Cold War when the Soviets planned to surge hundreds of submarines many of which were obsolete 1950s era submarines based on copies of WWII submarines. Those could often be detected from hundreds of miles away passively. Things aren't that way anymore. Even then, most hull mounted passive sonars aren't that great.

Also, for the Russian submarines, where they don't necessarily have good passive sonar range, I imagine active sonar has more of a pay off too.

All in all, it depends on what you're trying to do. Sometimes, though, the advantages of detection range far outweigh the advantages of stealth. With surface ships, that calculation generally ends up favoring turning on all your sensors.

[Molon Labe]

I think active is the skimmer's primary sensor. I use the TA too, but I tend to only rely on the TA as my primary sensor if the acoustic conditions are favorable AND I'm hunting a loud target.

For subs, active can be useful if you're in an SSN and hunting an SSK because you can frequently pin it down outside of the SSKs torpedo range. Active can also be useful if you know your opponent already has a good solution on you, so you really don't give anything up by giving him another bearing line with the ping.

[toonsis]

On a Frigate dont you get a bearing shot torpedo launched at you as soon as you go active ?
I am one of those people afraid to go active. I will use the TA and the Helo's sensors. I have read the Omni-Rotational SQS-56 is a useful tool in this sim.
Do you go active at speed and then drift ?
How do you not eat the torpedo you know is comming after going active ?

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by toonsis

On a Frigate dont you get a bearing shot torpedo launched at you as soon as you go active ?
I am one of those people afraid to go active. I will use the TA and the Helo's sensors. I have read the Omni-Rotational SQS-56 is a useful tool in this sim.
Do you go active at speed and then drift ?
How do you not eat the torpedo you know is comming after going active ?

Drop an active sonobuoy to get a position on the torpedo and get out of its incoming course at max speed !!!!
Really if there is an advantage on being on the frigate its the possibilty of mantaining acustic hearing while you're speeding at 30 knots.

[toonsis]

Won't the torpedo home in on me more easily if I am at high speed ?

I deploy the Nixie and try to "creep" away at a short sprint n long drift or 4kts

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by toonsis

Won't the torpedo home in on me more easily if I am at high speed ?

I deploy the Nixie and try to "creep" away at a short sprint n long drift or 4kts

No no.
Dropping an active sonobuoy will give you the EXACT POSITION of the torpedo and you can update the position in real time and watch the result on the navmap. So you know precisley where the torpedo is (and thereforse the dstance to your frigate) and where it is going.
Just choose a course that opens the distance at max speed and continue to look at the navmap. If the torpedo follows you simply change again direction and drop if necessary another active sonobuoy. If the torpedo is going strait for you drop the nixie.
But going at 4 knots without knowing what the hell the torpedo is doing is NOT A GOOD TACTIC.
Use the strenghs of the platform you're on.
You have tens of sonobuoys for a reason on the frigate.
Use them, they are not there just to be pretty. They are usefull in situations like this one.

Torpedos can be of 3 types : wake hommers, wireguided and fire and forget (such as those launched by the frigate). If you're attacked by a russian skipper most probably the torpedo will be a wake hommer. You can evade a wakehommer by getting out of its way before it intersects your wake (and getting a fix on the torpedo helps you so you see that an active sonobuoys is usefull). If the wakehommers continues to creep on you drop the nixie. If it doesn't work go to 3 knots and wait.
For wireguided torpedos, you can't have the luxury of going at 4 knots, so drop active sonobuoys, watch the navmap and evade at 30 knots changing course every 2-3 minutes.
For fire and forget torpedos, drop active sonobuoy. Look at position and get out of the way.
Of course in real mission you can't know beforehand what type of torpedo is coming your way so the best tactic is : drop active sonobuoy, update in real time position of torpedo and evade changeing course at 30 knots until the torpedo is far away from your position.

[toonsis]

Thanks, you were a big help to me. I was doing this all wrong

[ASWnut101]

I hope you don't try that with the latest version of LWAMI...