The facts of life: A heartfelt defense of Ubisoft and DRM - Page 14

NefariousKoel · 03-11-10, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

So what makes for the total reliability on my end and the end of everyone i know? I honestly cannot fathom why we would have two completely differant experiances with the same exact program.

This is also why you cannot fathom how your noble defense of this DRM makes you look to all the people who've had issues.

Having your head placed firmly in the sand doesn't make you noble or wise. It also makes your posts come off as trolling so don't be surprised at all the bile you get.

drtechno · 03-11-10, 06:22 PM

Can we rename this thread "We have beat him into submission and he no longer defends [this idiotic] DRM"

03-11-10, 07:11 PM

I didnt know it was a contest

Frederf · 03-11-10, 07:52 PM

It's the Internet, everything's a contest!

Guys, give MattDrizzle a break. What he meant is that "don't stop fighting a war because don't you have complete success." Just because he happened to pick WWII as his war in his analogy doesn't make it any less apt. And he's not calling UBI "Hitler" either, in fact it would be the opposite in this case as UBI/DRM/etc are the allies and piracy is the axis.

He chose his analogy poorly because the whole Hitler thing is way too easy to be distracted (and other posters were misled and distracted away from the point). He could have used some more plain arguments like "Why don't we stop having police officers since there's always going to be some crime?" or "Why don't be stop having doctors since people are always going to get sick?"

His argument is that DRM as an anti-piracy measure still has merit even if it is not 100% effective. If 99 people crack the game and 1 is foiled by DRM then that's 1 less case of piracy than if DRM was absent.

---
THAT BEING SAID
---

Personally I think UBISoft is not naive and they have no delusions that DRM can significantly curb piracy. However DRM is an excellent anti-consumer-rights scheme that can be easily marketed as anti-piracy. Sure, you might not stop many pirates but honest consumers are far less likely to be able to engage in second hand sales (which is a consumer right being undermined). This is like the police gathering revenue from automobile tickets under the guise of public service. The ticket-able offenses aren't curbed but at least they are making cash.

Another viewpoint is that even if certain people inside UBI understand that DRM is more hurtful than helpful, they have narrow-sighted corporate policies that oblige them to engage in DRM even though it's a bad idea. The analogy would be soldiers stationed in a war-torn country's city. The fact that soldiers are there makes the locals mad and causes violence. It would be smarter to remove the soldiers but the military is obliged to add more soldiers "because it's dangerous there and it's our policy to add soldiers where it's dangerous" when a more free thinking and insightful military would decide otherwise.

Reece · 03-11-10, 08:03 PM

OSP sucks! the main reason I won't buy it!!

TwistedFemur · 03-11-10, 09:25 PM

I didnt read all 14 pages, so I apologize if this has already been brought up.

one major reason for illegal cracks stems from the companies attitude of "release it now, patch it later" even if the code is broken.

Reece · 03-11-10, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedFemur

I didnt read all 14 pages, so I apologize if this has already been brought up.

one major reason for illegal cracks stems from the companies attitude of "release it now, patch it later" even if the code is broken.

Hey the code is not broken, there is none!!

Skullcowboy · 03-11-10, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frederf

<snip>He could have used some more plain arguments like "Why don't we stop having police officers since there's always going to be some crime?" or "Why don't be stop having doctors since people are always going to get sick?"<snip>

Sorry, but I am not as generous as you in my thoughts of his analogy. He knew exactly where he was going and it was for the shock factor. When you don't have a real argument, go for the sensational. The RIAA and the MPAA are very fond of this.

Folks like him love to trot out the "But mine works great, I don't see what you are complaining about" line. Well, I don't have cancer so what's with all this research for a cure?

The very thing he claimed not to be as he whined for the thread to be closed is EXACTLY what, in fact, he is.

Ta Ta and have a GREAT day.

sabretwo · 03-11-10, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

So what makes for the total reliability on my end and the end of everyone i know? I honestly cannot fathom why we would have two completely differant experiances with the same exact program. I'm only arguing for the concept of the always-online DRM, failings do not allow paying customers to play their game are of course unforgivable, but i dont think writing off a promising program and concept is needed for a few teething problems. Again, on paper it looks like a great idea, and it works fine for me.

Matt,

Have you played Sh5 yet while traveling on a plane accross the Atlantic? Or how about when you're on vacation at a house in the woods without Internet access? Or maybe when you're staying at a trade show in Vegas with charges up to $30 per day? or does Comcast charge you per MB like our colleagues in many places in Europe? Or have you played on a satellite connection while resting at night at a military base in Iraq?

Do you get my point yet? You and your buddies obviously don't play on the road and enjoy the unique benefit of a good stable high speed conenction all the time. However, there's a whole big world out there where Internet access is not so available.

BTW, I live in Pinellas County just accross the state from you. My home internet goes out at least 5-10 hours per week (Road Runner). When I'm home, I rarely play (Don't have the time). When I play is when I travel (usually about 1-2 weeks per month). Later this Spring I'll be in Baghdad for six weeks with nothing to do at night. Thankfully I have SH3 to help pass time. SH5 would be useless.

skwasjer · 03-11-10, 11:42 PM

DRM must go. I have a very stable connection but OSP has bugged me daily since I got the game a few days ago. I would get AC2 too, but now I won't... and that sucks and costs Ubi money. A missed opportunity if you ask me...

Commie · 03-12-10, 12:25 AM

What is interesting is that the DRM supposedly is the same for SH5 and ASSCreed 2, yet SH5 has been cracked from day one(yes it's cracked, only thing was SKIDROW didn't test enough to get the write protect triggers for campaign removed, and that can be done manually) while ASSCreed still hasn't.

Seems to me that SH5 had it slapped on as more of a halfarsed test run, as UBI knows the money is in other games, so why not test their new 'baby' on something most gamers won't care about?

ingsoc84 · 03-12-10, 01:42 AM

DRM is a double sided sword, part of me does not like it, its my game, I paid for it, and I should not have to have a connection just to play it, other hand, I lived in Russia two years, and its next to impossible to find a non pirated western game.

ingsoc84 · 03-12-10, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabretwo

Matt,

Have you played Sh5 yet while traveling on a plane accross the Atlantic? Or how about when you're on vacation at a house in the woods without Internet access? Or maybe when you're staying at a trade show in Vegas with charges up to $30 per day? or does Comcast charge you per MB like our colleagues in many places in Europe? Or have you played on a satellite connection while resting at night at a military base in Iraq?

Do you get my point yet? You and your buddies obviously don't play on the road and enjoy the unique benefit of a good stable high speed conenction all the time. However, there's a whole big world out there where Internet access is not so available.

BTW, I live in Pinellas County just accross the state from you. My home internet goes out at least 5-10 hours per week (Road Runner). When I'm home, I rarely play (Don't have the time). When I play is when I travel (usually about 1-2 weeks per month). Later this Spring I'll be in Baghdad for six weeks with nothing to do at night. Thankfully I have SH3 to help pass time. SH5 would be useless.

All very good points, overseas, as in Russia, very hard to get good dedicated fast internet, and also, many people pay by the amount downloaded, I had dsl there, fastest residential i could get, always problems.

Frederf · 03-12-10, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skullcowboy

Sorry, but I am not as generous as you in my thoughts of his analogy.

Generous is an emotion. Emotion may be the way you deal with communication but in my world the English language is not a child's plaything. A sentence means only one thing no matter how you were feeling when you read it.

jimbuna queries

Quote:

What saddens me is the fact that the measures taken are no longer sufficient which begs the question....why bother in the first place?

MattDrizzle replies

Quote:

Damn, this hitler guy seems to have taken over all of europe, destroying nations much larger and more powerful than our own, why bother fighting?

If you look at this it's clear that MattDrizzle is trying to point out the logical failing in jimbuna's premise by reducing that premise to absurd conclusions. Jimbuna suggests in effect "Fighting is useless if you are losing." MattDrizzle replies with the aid of sarcasm, "Surely what you state cannot be universally true. What about this instance? Is this not an example which contradicts your suggestion?"

It doesn't matter if you agree with his overall stance on the issue or even if you like the guy, that is clearly the heart of the conversation. Claims otherwise are at best ignorance and at worst malice. It is not alright nor is it your entitlement to misrepresent reality as you have in such a way that defames a person by words or motive that are fictitious.

Catfish · 03-12-10, 02:55 AM

" ... DRM is an excellent anti-consumer-rights scheme that can be easily marketed as anti-piracy. ..."

And this is what it's all about.

1. Sell a "license" rather than a copy

2. Make a resell of any game or software at all, impossible

3. Demand constant online requirement, sell this as anti piracy measures

4. When all have online requirement accepted and have to use it, introduce pay-per-play via online debit.

resulting in :

= customer rights cut down, complaints impossible (but it was stated in the box ! You opened that package and accepted all. )
= complete dependability on the company and servers
= constant cashflow from the consumers, which will be "adapted" (read: raised!) from time to time, due to those horrendous development costs, online and programming costs, piracy blah blah blah.
= more people fired (sorry: "set free" ! ) since the model runs itself automatically and is controlloed by IP and eMail information
= pleased shareholders, because every one fired raises the share values.

Phantastic win-win situation for the suits.

Isn't this a great time.

Greetings,
Catfish

03-11-10, 08:03 PM	#200
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,951 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	OSP sucks! the main reason I won't buy it!! __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

03-11-10, 09:25 PM	#201
TwistedFemur Frogman Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 302 Downloads: 72 Uploads: 0	I didnt read all 14 pages, so I apologize if this has already been brought up. one major reason for illegal cracks stems from the companies attitude of "release it now, patch it later" even if the code is broken. __________________ <a href="http://www.dewmocracy.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.dewmocracy.com/images/banner_distortion.jpg" border="0" alt="Vote for MTN DEW(R) Distortion(TM) - Dewmocracy.com" /></a>

03-11-10, 11:42 PM	#205
skwasjer The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,549 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 3	DRM must go. I have a very stable connection but OSP has bugged me daily since I got the game a few days ago. I would get AC2 too, but now I won't... and that sucks and costs Ubi money. A missed opportunity if you ask me... __________________ S3D - Silent 3ditor (v0.9.9) - S3D homepage - Open sourced S3D file parser API's - SUBSIM thread SH5 mods: Speech Recognition for SH5 \| Digital UI Clock Tutorials: [TEC] Import/export 3D models to/from game using S3D [TEC] How to work with the model viewer in S3D - VIDEO

03-11-10, 06:22 PM	#197
drtechno Sailor man Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 48 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Can we rename this thread "We have beat him into submission and he no longer defends [this idiotic] DRM"

03-11-10, 07:11 PM	#198
MattDizzle Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I didnt know it was a contest

03-11-10, 07:52 PM	#199
Frederf Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 665 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 1	It's the Internet, everything's a contest! Guys, give MattDrizzle a break. What he meant is that "don't stop fighting a war because don't you have complete success." Just because he happened to pick WWII as his war in his analogy doesn't make it any less apt. And he's not calling UBI "Hitler" either, in fact it would be the opposite in this case as UBI/DRM/etc are the allies and piracy is the axis. He chose his analogy poorly because the whole Hitler thing is way too easy to be distracted (and other posters were misled and distracted away from the point). He could have used some more plain arguments like "Why don't we stop having police officers since there's always going to be some crime?" or "Why don't be stop having doctors since people are always going to get sick?" His argument is that DRM as an anti-piracy measure still has merit even if it is not 100% effective. If 99 people crack the game and 1 is foiled by DRM then that's 1 less case of piracy than if DRM was absent. --- THAT BEING SAID --- Personally I think UBISoft is not naive and they have no delusions that DRM can significantly curb piracy. However DRM is an excellent anti-consumer-rights scheme that can be easily *marketed* as anti-piracy. Sure, you might not stop many pirates but honest consumers are far less likely to be able to engage in second hand sales (which is a consumer right being undermined). This is like the police gathering revenue from automobile tickets under the guise of public service. The ticket-able offenses aren't curbed but at least they are making cash. Another viewpoint is that even if certain people inside UBI understand that DRM is more hurtful than helpful, they have narrow-sighted corporate policies that oblige them to engage in DRM even though it's a bad idea. The analogy would be soldiers stationed in a war-torn country's city. The fact that soldiers are there makes the locals mad and causes violence. It would be smarter to remove the soldiers but the military is obliged to add more soldiers "because it's dangerous there and it's our policy to add soldiers where it's dangerous" when a more free thinking and insightful military would decide otherwise.

03-12-10, 12:25 AM	#206
Commie Machinist's Mate Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 122 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	What is interesting is that the DRM supposedly is the same for SH5 and ASSCreed 2, yet SH5 has been cracked from day one(yes it's cracked, only thing was SKIDROW didn't test enough to get the write protect triggers for campaign removed, and that can be done manually) while ASSCreed still hasn't. Seems to me that SH5 had it slapped on as more of a halfarsed test run, as UBI knows the money is in other games, so why not test their new 'baby' on something most gamers won't care about?

03-12-10, 01:42 AM	#207
ingsoc84 Navy Dude Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 173 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	DRM is a double sided sword, part of me does not like it, its my game, I paid for it, and I should not have to have a connection just to play it, other hand, I lived in Russia two years, and its next to impossible to find a non pirated western game.

03-12-10, 02:55 AM	#210
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,822 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	" *... DRM is an excellent anti-consumer-rights scheme that can be easily marketed* as anti-piracy. ..."** And this is what it's all about. 1. Sell a "license" rather than a copy 2. Make a resell of any game or software at all, impossible 3. Demand constant online requirement, sell this as anti piracy measures 4. When all have online requirement accepted and have to use it, introduce pay-per-play via online debit. resulting in : = customer rights cut down, complaints impossible (but it was stated in the box ! You opened that package and accepted all. ) = complete dependability on the company and servers = constant cashflow from the consumers, which will be "adapted" (read: raised!) from time to time, due to those horrendous development costs, online and programming costs, piracy blah blah blah. = more people fired (sorry: "set free" ! ) since the model runs itself automatically and is controlloed by IP and eMail information = pleased shareholders, because every one fired raises the share values. Phantastic win-win situation for the suits. Isn't this a great time. Greetings, Catfish