Subsim Video: New Manual TDC Video in HD (2/13/10)

[TH0R]

Originally Posted by Probex

I am curious what Neal's machine specs are?

I found all the in-game motion very choppy and apparently low in fps, so I am concerned that the game is written poorly and will be a disappointment to me.

I am also curious if the game will support wide screen resolution properly, such as 3840x1024?

I am willing to bet that its FPS dropped due recording, to even 1/2 of what he normally has when he isn't recording.

[martes86]

Originally Posted by TH0R

I am willing to bet that its FPS dropped due recording, to even 1/2 of what he normally has when he isn't recording.

Yeah, that happens. After all, he's taking 30 caps per sec in high-res while rendering a high-end graphics scene. It's bound to happen.

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by TH0R

I am willing to bet that its FPS dropped due recording, to even 1/2 of what he normally has when he isn't recording.

Originally Posted by martes86

Yeah, that happens. After all, he's taking 30 caps per sec in high-res while rendering a high-end graphics scene. It's bound to happen.

[Frederf]

karamazovnew is mostly right, AOB 120 and AOB 30 shots from the same side are very similar but not exactly the same. For a short range shot these solutions are very close. They get farther away in range, the more they are different.

It is easiest to imagine the difference this way. Imagine two ships right on top of each other, range 4000m, bearing 45°, speed 10 kts. Ship A has a heading in such a way that it's AOB is 030° while Ship B has a heading which makes its AOB 120°.

Say you have a really fast torpedo such that both torpedo runs take the same amount of time to get to the target. Call this time some 2 minutes. Assuming that both torpedoes were launched at the same time and all periscope sightings were taken at the same place, do you think that the ships A and B still are in the same line after 2 minutes?

Ship A should be ahead of Ship B visually as it has crossed more bearing angles since it has drawn closer to the observing sub. Its rate of bearing line crossing has gotten faster the closer it's gotten for two reasons. One, it's closer so the bearing lines are more closely spaced. Two, the AOB has gotten closer to 90° as it passes in front of the submarine. Ship B has done just the opposite, crossing fewer bearing lines per unit time and has shrunk its AOB getting closer and closer to 180 as it sails toward the horizon.

There are secondary effects to the equations like the fact that torpedoes have reach out of the tube and their gyro angle and their eventual destination's bearing are different because of this reach. Also the finite speed of the torpedo means that the travel time of the torpedo to Ship A is shorter than to Ship B and thus can cancel out the primary effect mentioned in the above paragraph partially, exactly, or can exceed it depending on the speeds and ranges involved.

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Some of the replies here in this thread just make me chuckle. All along people have been clamoring for a sub sim that shows the game from the captain's perspective. The devs do just that, including a representation of the captain handing off firing data to the TDC officer. And now some are claiming this is a sloppy, unprofessional job done by the devs?

A idea, C+ execution. I want SH5 to be a "captain simulator" but not like this. Make no mistake; this is just a reworked SH3 notepad skin deep. TDC control wasn't the XO's job or the CO's job it was the plotting party's job! It's a team effort! This video doesn't show a team effort, it shows a blank-faced robot waiting to accept magic numbers from the CO in the form of a screwed up Madlib. Where are the angular rate tables or hydrophone prop counts? Why can't you should out a dozen sightings over the course of minutes and have the plotter...ya know, actually plot to figure out speed and course?

What's the crap with the magic numbers jumping on the dialog box as the CO merrily spins the periscope like a top across 10 different targets? WTF!?!?

Originally Posted by Platapus

Some posters wrote that in SH4 you can input speeds in fractions. Just because the graphic interface allows the player to manipulate a dial to indicate 1/2 knot increments, does not mean that the game uses those increments.

This was easily observable in SH4. Even fractional speeds were possible even though the voice files only said integers. I have confirmed that you can get down to at least 0.2 knot resolution by checking the resulting RPM by clicking on various parts of the dial between whole number knot settings. The same is also true for the SH4 TDC as you can watch the torpedo line smoothly change based on things like target speed in the F6 screen.

Personally I absolutely despise the absolute truckload of crap on the screen while in the periscope view. 99% of it is crap. The periscope is for looking and holding down a "give orders" key that can pop up some interface and that's it! In a real submarine there's not even a bearing readout on the glass!

I don't think the devs are lazy... I think they are inadequately insightful as to what an inspired design of this action would look like. Either this or they are fundamentally bound to poor direction/design by someone inadequately insightful. Given a chance I could design something infinitely better.

[coronas]

Anybody has noticed fire's smoke direction? It's seem perpendicular to the ship. Wind effects?

[Mash]

I am very disappointed by the whole user interface. What happened to the compass and depth gauges and knobs? This is a WWII game and not a modern ipod version made for average user. Looking at the manual TDC I don’t get the feeling that I am involved in making any of the targeting decisions. It seems to be done for me and I just modify them a bit. I still cannot get over how bad the whole interface looks like.

I guess I will have to wait until some series mods come out and UBI gets rid of the DRM. Otherwise, I will skip this sim/arcade.

[McBeck]

Well...I think the idea of this sim is for you to be the captain. So in that respect its better than the old ones.
Lets wait and see how much control you can actully have

[piri_reis]

Originally Posted by McBeck

Well...I think the idea of this sim is for you to be the captain. So in that respect its better than the old ones.
Lets wait and see how much control you can actully have

Well couldn't you just play with Automatic Targeting turned on in the old series, and get a similar effect?
What do people mean, when they say, this is a sim for the captain, captain doesn't touch the TDC. Well he could shove the Wep Officer aside and do it himself if he wanted to, right?

If you want a simulation like this for the captain, the deck/AA gun shouldn't give us any camera at all, and no listening at the hydrophone either.. Funny, what game do we have left then?

[Onkel Neal]

Very accurate description, but how about some illustrations?

Originally Posted by Frederf

karamazovnew is mostly right, AOB 120 and AOB 30 shots from the same side are very similar but not exactly the same. For a short range shot these solutions are very close. They get farther away in range, the more they are different.

It is easiest to imagine the difference this way. Imagine two ships right on top of each other, range 4000m, bearing 45°, speed 10 kts. Ship A has a heading in such a way that it's AOB is 030° while Ship B has a heading which makes its AOB 120°.

Say you have a really fast torpedo such that both torpedo runs take the same amount of time to get to the target. Call this time some 2 minutes. Assuming that both torpedoes were launched at the same time and all periscope sightings were taken at the same place, do you think that the ships A and B still are in the same line after 2 minutes?

Ship A should be ahead of Ship B visually as it has crossed more bearing angles since it has drawn closer to the observing sub. Its rate of bearing line crossing has gotten faster the closer it's gotten for two reasons. One, it's closer so the bearing lines are more closely spaced. Two, the AOB has gotten closer to 90° as it passes in front of the submarine. Ship B has done just the opposite, crossing fewer bearing lines per unit time and has shrunk its AOB getting closer and closer to 180 as it sails toward the horizon.

There are secondary effects to the equations like the fact that torpedoes have reach out of the tube and their gyro angle and their eventual destination's bearing are different because of this reach. Also the finite speed of the torpedo means that the travel time of the torpedo to Ship A is shorter than to Ship B and thus can cancel out the primary effect mentioned in the above paragraph partially, exactly, or can exceed it depending on the speeds and ranges involved.



A idea, C+ execution. I want SH5 to be a "captain simulator" but not like this. Make no mistake; this is just a reworked SH3 notepad skin deep. TDC control wasn't the XO's job or the CO's job it was the plotting party's job! It's a team effort! This video doesn't show a team effort, it shows a blank-faced robot waiting to accept magic numbers from the CO in the form of a screwed up Madlib. Where are the angular rate tables or hydrophone prop counts? Why can't you should out a dozen sightings over the course of minutes and have the plotter...ya know, actually plot to figure out speed and course?

What's the crap with the magic numbers jumping on the dialog box as the CO merrily spins the periscope like a top across 10 different targets? WTF!?!?



This was easily observable in SH4. Even fractional speeds were possible even though the voice files only said integers. I have confirmed that you can get down to at least 0.2 knot resolution by checking the resulting RPM by clicking on various parts of the dial between whole number knot settings. The same is also true for the SH4 TDC as you can watch the torpedo line smoothly change based on things like target speed in the F6 screen.

Personally I absolutely despise the absolute truckload of crap on the screen while in the periscope view. 99% of it is crap. The periscope is for looking and holding down a "give orders" key that can pop up some interface and that's it! In a real submarine there's not even a bearing readout on the glass!

I don't think the devs are lazy... I think they are inadequately insightful as to what an inspired design of this action would look like. Either this or they are fundamentally bound to poor direction/design by someone inadequately insightful. Given a chance I could design something infinitely better.

[hachiman]

Originally Posted by Heretic

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=152590 is the link to the mod thread itself (which is the mod his pics above are from). In the first post there are links for the documentation. The one labeled 'the big one' has all the goodies.

Cheers mate

[TH0R]

Originally Posted by piri_reis

Well couldn't you just play with Automatic Targeting turned on in the old series, and get a similar effect?

Not for me. But I agree, there should be a functional TDC. Even if you can't click on one, I would like to see the dials move or show my firing solution.

[longam]

Like this one? This is from the game footage.

[Frederf]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Very accurate description, but how about some illustrations?

Illustrations for which, the AOB30/120 thing, periscope/TDC, or the SH4 intermediary values?

[Rykaird]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Some of you really need to figure out what you want the game to be: either a simulator where you run around and twirl all the buttons, or a simulation of how a commander interacted with his subordinates. For me, the choice is the latter, and it's going to be the route I take in any mod work I undertake for this game.

For me, the choice is the former. I'm out.