Somali Pirates hit a new high... er low

MothBalls · 11-17-08, 01:55 PM

Time for the UN to ask for naval support from a coalition of countries and start doing convoys.

AntEater · 11-17-08, 02:11 PM

Actually the title should be:
"Pirates go to new (ship) lenghts"
:rotfl:

Re convoying, the problem with that is that international maritime trade is a merciless business. Some pilots of airlines complain about underfunded maintenace and low wages, in merchant traffic, these are standard.
Ships and crews are pretty much considered expendable, all the more because most of the ships are second hand and most of the crews are not from the same country as the owners.
Convoying would cost shipping companies more than losing the odd ship and crew to pirates.
Also, these ships are usually flagged under cheap flags. And as far as I know neither Liberia nor Cyprus are renowned naval powers.
Also, the great shipping companies like Maersk or HAPAG-Lloyd are not the ones to lose ships.
HAPAG ships give Somalia a wide berth and move quite fast, above 17 knots. At high seas, a Dhow or RHIB will have trouble catching them. Not to mention that for those companies, neither ships nor crew are expendable, some of them even register their ships under their national flag(!).
It is the bottom tier of maritime traffic that suffers, and those companies do not have the political leverage Maersk, P&O or HAPAG have.

Blacklight · 11-17-08, 02:13 PM

One of my first responses would be: If a port is identified as a pirate haven and is used once for that purpose, it would be bombed.

I too support military strikes against these guys. We need to send a message of cruise missiles and bombs to these guys and reduce their speedboats to matchsticks.

We also need to get a LOT more multinational armed patrols in the area. Maybe even set up a "no trafic zone" where any vessel under a certain size will be terminated on sight.

Skybird · 11-17-08, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight

One of my first responses would be: If a port is identified as a pirate haven and is used once for that purpose, it would be bombed.

I too support military strikes against these guys. We need to send a message of cruise missiles and bombs to these guys and reduce their speedboats to matchsticks.

We also need to get a LOT more multinational armed patrols in the area. Maybe even set up a "no trafic zone" where any vessel under a certain size will be terminated on sight.

wasting cruise missiles on tiny nutshells worth 100 $US only is a waste of money. As I said, CAS with FFAR and autocannons would be sufficient. eventually a Hellfire for those tough guys raising their RPGs at helicopters. One should get a deal with the Americans that they station one of their helicopter-carriers in the area and establish a pattern of area-covering air pastrols. Ships and nations trafficking through the area could be taxed, like a toll station on the highway. I do not see why America should pay for such an operation alone.

PeriscopeDepth · 11-17-08, 02:24 PM

According to this Royal Navy Marines were recently engaged in a shootout with pirates were stupid enough to shoot at them (Russia may also have been involved). Also:
- The Indian Navy around Somalia may be using a different RoE than Western navies involved.
- An older post (I didn't see it on the front page and didn't dig for it) has a merchant captain's account of coming under attack by pirates and a NATO P-3 dropping ordinance on them.

PD

11-18-08, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight

One of my first responses would be: If a port is identified as a pirate haven and is used once for that purpose, it would be bombed.

I too support military strikes against these guys. We need to send a message of cruise missiles and bombs to these guys and reduce their speedboats to matchsticks.

We also need to get a LOT more multinational armed patrols in the area. Maybe even set up a "no trafic zone" where any vessel under a certain size will be terminated on sight.

I'm with you 100% on that one. I'd send at least 4 warships to within blasting distance of their harbors, stop and search each and every boat coming out/going in, and those that don't stop, blow them out of the water. Twice (just to make sure).

If they're found to be bringing weapons out, blast the harbor and support structure.

Yes, the UN will complain about it. Tough. Let them send their own ships there to fix it if they don't like it.

So says I, once I become the Evil Overlord.

Skybird · 11-17-08, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MothBalls

Time for the UN to ask for naval support from a coalition of countries and start doing convoys.

Arent we already doing something like that? Combat units we have in the operation's area. The problem is the ROEs. the Russians for example are allowed to open fire, as far as I do know (not sure, though). that'S why the mere fact that they were going in was enough to scare away the pirates trying to catch the Saudi freighter. especially the western navies seem to have ROE that bind both their hands on their back.

Blacklight · 11-17-08, 02:21 PM

If the Somali government (and I use that term loosely) can't stop these guys, A multi-national colaition should go in there and wipe these guys out. Safe havens and ports that support these guys need to be bombed. Pirates need to be taken out. Shipping companies have to stop paying ransoms. Special Forces should be kept in that area specificly for taking these guys out. Convoys with proper ROE's need to be utilised. We need a few multinational aircraft carriers there to provide constant air patrol, also with proper ROE !
Lets see how they like it whenever they try to hijack a ship and their port gets turned into a burning heap !

Skybird · 11-17-08, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight

If the Somali government (and I use that term loosely) can't stop these guys,

There is none worth to be called that. The place is a true anarchy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steam Wake

Skybird Im supprised at you, what about the enviromental impact? :hmm:

Hm? You mean 20 liters of gasoline, most of it burning after the nutshell was hit, maybe poisoning the ocean there?

Letum · 11-17-08, 02:49 PM

Must....not....romanticize pirates...*strains*

fatty · 11-17-08, 02:58 PM

Excellent! More material for my thesis! :p

Brag · 11-17-08, 03:03 PM

These pirates are real tonnage kings

So far, this month seven freighters been hijacked.
Some years ago, I took a ride in a cigarette smuggling boat, similar to the boats used by the Somali pirates. This boat was capable of doing 36 knots in a slight choppy sea.

Carotio · 11-17-08, 04:34 PM

Not long time ago, a Danish warship patrolling the area caught a group of pirates and their equipment, which strongly indicated their piracy activities.

Then the problem arose. Before sending out the ship, there was no real policy, and there still ain't AFAIK, what to do with captured pirates.

Most ordinary people, including me, would probably say: punish them as pirates were used to be punished: either sent off ship in the sea without anything far from land or hung up in a mast. Not too much discussion, just do it.

But civilized as WE were, the ship crew were not allowed to do that, so the pirates were relased. I repeat: they were released.

Nobody in our country would want them to come to our country for a trial, because then they might got asylum in then end, which would be some sort of reward in the end. And the UN giving Denmark mandate to patrol the area have not given mandate to execute the pirates. Why not?

I would not be surprised if these were the same who captured this big tanker. They must be laughing their a$$'es off of our "civilized" manners.

baggygreen · 11-17-08, 06:09 PM

Funny, isnt it - by our being 'civilised' we're costing ourselves money, and rewarding those who don't play by the same rules.

heres a question for the more legal-minded types.

have the laws authorising the execution of those engaged in piracy ever been revoked? If not, then a more generic question is why the hell aren't we using them?!

11-17-08, 02:11 PM	#2
AntEater Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 936 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Actually the title should be: "Pirates go to new (ship) lenghts" :rotfl: Re convoying, the problem with that is that international maritime trade is a merciless business. Some pilots of airlines complain about underfunded maintenace and low wages, in merchant traffic, these are standard. Ships and crews are pretty much considered expendable, all the more because most of the ships are second hand and most of the crews are not from the same country as the owners. Convoying would cost shipping companies more than losing the odd ship and crew to pirates. Also, these ships are usually flagged under cheap flags. And as far as I know neither Liberia nor Cyprus are renowned naval powers. Also, the great shipping companies like Maersk or HAPAG-Lloyd are not the ones to lose ships. HAPAG ships give Somalia a wide berth and move quite fast, above 17 knots. At high seas, a Dhow or RHIB will have trouble catching them. Not to mention that for those companies, neither ships nor crew are expendable, some of them even register their ships under their national flag(!). It is the bottom tier of maritime traffic that suffers, and those companies do not have the political leverage Maersk, P&O or HAPAG have. __________________ Last edited by AntEater; 11-17-08 at 02:17 PM.

11-17-08, 02:13 PM	#3
Blacklight Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,507 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	One of my first responses would be: If a port is identified as a pirate haven and is used once for that purpose, it would be bombed. I too support military strikes against these guys. We need to send a message of cruise missiles and bombs to these guys and reduce their speedboats to matchsticks. We also need to get a LOT more multinational armed patrols in the area. Maybe even set up a "no trafic zone" where any vessel under a certain size will be terminated on sight. __________________ Be my friend or be a mushroom cloud. "I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes !"

11-17-08, 02:21 PM	#8
Blacklight Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,507 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	If the Somali government (and I use that term loosely) can't stop these guys, A multi-national colaition should go in there and wipe these guys out. Safe havens and ports that support these guys need to be bombed. Pirates need to be taken out. Shipping companies have to stop paying ransoms. Special Forces should be kept in that area specificly for taking these guys out. Convoys with proper ROE's need to be utilised. We need a few multinational aircraft carriers there to provide constant air patrol, also with proper ROE ! Lets see how they like it whenever they try to hijack a ship and their port gets turned into a burning heap ! __________________ Be my friend or be a mushroom cloud. "I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes !" Last edited by Blacklight; 11-17-08 at 02:23 PM.

11-17-08, 02:49 PM	#10
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Must....not....romanticize pirates...strains __________________

11-17-08, 03:03 PM	#12
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	These pirates are real tonnage kings So far, this month seven freighters been hijacked. Some years ago, I took a ride in a cigarette smuggling boat, similar to the boats used by the Somali pirates. This boat was capable of doing 36 knots in a slight choppy sea. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

11-17-08, 01:55 PM	#1
MothBalls Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,012 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Time for the UN to ask for naval support from a coalition of countries and start doing convoys.

11-17-08, 02:24 PM	#5
PeriscopeDepth Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,894 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	According to this Royal Navy Marines were recently engaged in a shootout with pirates were stupid enough to shoot at them (Russia may also have been involved). Also: - The Indian Navy around Somalia may be using a different RoE than Western navies involved. - An older post (I didn't see it on the front page and didn't dig for it) has a merchant captain's account of coming under attack by pirates and a NATO P-3 dropping ordinance on them. PD

11-17-08, 02:58 PM	#11
fatty The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 1,448 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Excellent! More material for my thesis! :p

11-17-08, 04:34 PM	#13
Carotio Mr. Bad Wolf Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Aabenraa, Denmark Posts: 1,488 Downloads: 47 Uploads: 0	Not long time ago, a Danish warship patrolling the area caught a group of pirates and their equipment, which strongly indicated their piracy activities. Then the problem arose. Before sending out the ship, there was no real policy, and there still ain't AFAIK, what to do with captured pirates. Most ordinary people, including me, would probably say: punish them as pirates were used to be punished: either sent off ship in the sea without anything far from land or hung up in a mast. Not too much discussion, just do it. But civilized as WE were, the ship crew were not allowed to do that, so the pirates were relased. I repeat: they were released. Nobody in our country would want them to come to our country for a trial, because then they might got asylum in then end, which would be some sort of reward in the end. And the UN giving Denmark mandate to patrol the area have not given mandate to execute the pirates. Why not? I would not be surprised if these were the same who captured this big tanker. They must be laughing their a$$'es off of our "civilized" manners. __________________ Download my mods from SHMF Follow my photography here taler dansk, speak English, spreche Deutsch, parle français, forstår svenska/norsk, comprendo castellano

11-17-08, 06:09 PM	#14
baggygreen Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canberra, ACT, Down Under (really On Top) Posts: 1,880 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Funny, isnt it - by our being 'civilised' we're costing ourselves money, and rewarding those who don't play by the same rules. heres a question for the more legal-minded types. have the laws authorising the execution of those engaged in piracy ever been revoked? If not, then a more generic question is why the hell aren't we using them?!