Illegal Immigrants Returning to Mexico in Record Numbers

[Digital_Trucker]

My guess is that they come here because their own country sucks and they want to get away from it, but they don't want to do it legally 'cause (insert babies cries here) it's too hard and we'd have to pay taxes and we don't want to learn another language, or try to become a part of the society, we want you to conform to our society.

My apologies if I'm being too vague on how I feel about the subject

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

My guess is that they come here because their own country sucks and they want to get away from it, but they don't want to do it legally 'cause (insert babies cries here) it's too hard and we'd have to pay taxes and we don't want to learn another language, or try to become a part of the society, we want you to conform to our society.

My apologies if I'm being too vague on how I feel about the subject

As much as I can see your points and agree with them to some degree, I try not to single out Mexican immigrants as a cause of immigration problems. Admittedly, they are a large part, but I have no doubt that if Ghana or Indonesia or some other 3rd-world nation bordered us to the south, we would be faced with the same problem.

Although I realize this isn't part of anything you said at all, there seems to be a lot of borderline (my lame puns ) racial hatred against Mexicans these days. At least in Texas. There is a danger there.

However, and as always, I do not really support state intervention in this matter, other than to keep the state the hell away from illegal immigrants. Their interference has only made this country more attractive to illegal immigration.
Their social programs and the vast expenditures that they incur are amongst the primary harms of illegal immigration.
I would actually support a constituional amendment to exclude children of illegal workers/immigrants/travelers from being considered citizens of the U.S. when they are born here, thus denying them any social welfare, citizens rights, or police protection.

Deprived of such incentives, the only immigrants we would face would be those willing to immigrate properly, or those willing to tolerate the ridiculous abuses they would indubitably suffer without any citizen's rights.

That way, we get the benefits of immigration in our labor pool and our tax base, whilst only exploiting those that would otherwise damage it, as well as reducing the tide of immigrants overall.

Win-win-win.

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

My guess is that they come here because their own country sucks and they want to get away from it, but they don't want to do it legally 'cause (insert babies cries here) it's too hard and we'd have to pay taxes and we don't want to learn another language, or try to become a part of the society, we want you to conform to our society.

My apologies if I'm being too vague on how I feel about the subject

No need to apologize. Personally, I'd say get rid off all the illegals immigrants. Ship 'em back from where ever they come from and built a wall or fence AND put the man power up to actually secure the border. If someone is that desperate to come into a country they can do it the legal way.

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

...or those willing to tolerate the ridiculous abuses they would indubitably suffer without any citizen's rights.

This does not make sense. They endured it before someone came up with that fabulous idea of sanctuary cities and they will further endure it after those sanctuaries are gone. The numbers may dwindle, but , imho, they will pick up again if the Dollares gets stronger again.

[Digital_Trucker]

@ UnderseaLcpl Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Mexicans as a group. Some of the finest neighbors I've had have been from South of the Border (no, not the one on I-95 :rotfl. And I agree that it wouldn't matter who was down there, we would probably be invaded (after all, we're not being invaded by Canadians).

My gripe is with the concept that a person can come up here (legally or not) and expect to impose their culture on the rest of the country. Someone please explain to me why our entire country should learn to speak Mexican? For crying out loud, the teachers in schools now are having to be bilingual in order to teach! If I were to move to Mexico (or France, or Germany, or Italy, or Russia) I wouldn't expect the entire society to magically start speaking English to accomodate me, why should we be expected to do the same?

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

My gripe is with the concept that a person can come up here (legally or not) and expect to impose their culture on the rest of the country. Someone please explain to me why our entire country should learn to speak Mexican? For crying out loud, the teachers in schools now are having to be bilingual in order to teach! If I were to move to Mexico (or France, or Germany, or Italy, or Russia) I wouldn't expect the entire society to magically start speaking English to accomodate me, why should we be expected to do the same?

Exactly! That is how I see it as well. I am a guest in the country (until I receive citizenship, if i want it, that is) and I ought to behave accordingly.

I had some quite fierey exchanges with peoples that actually made excuses for why it is ok not to behave like a guest or to fit into society.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

@ UnderseaLcpl Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Mexicans as a group. Some of the finest neighbors I've had have been from South of the Border (no, not the one on I-95 :rotfl. And I agree that it wouldn't matter who was down there, we would probably be invaded (after all, we're not being invaded by Canadians).

My gripe is with the concept that a person can come up here (legally or not) and expect to impose their culture on the rest of the country. Someone please explain to me why our entire country should learn to speak Mexican? For crying out loud, the teachers in schools now are having to be bilingual in order to teach! If I were to move to Mexico (or France, or Germany, or Italy, or Russia) I wouldn't expect the entire society to magically start speaking English to accomodate me, why should we be expected to do the same?

We are facing an almost identical situation here in the UK.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

We are facing an almost identical situation here in the UK.

I think it's the entire of west/central Europe.
We have some people here who are the second generation that was born here (their grandparents came here as "guest workers" shortly after WWII, their parents were born here) and some of them can't even speak proper German.
Some also have no willingness to integrate themselves into society and since they can't graduate in school (remember they don't speak the language properly) they have no perspective for the future.



Again, its not all of them but I wonder whether they are really a minority among them.

[Frame57]

Borders, language and culture is what makes a Country, when those are infringed upon you no longer have a Country. Our Border patrol go to prison when they do their job here. I would deport Bush for his obvious love for illegal's.

[cj95]

I grew up on the Texas border and lived there for many years.

Eventually I had to move away because its impossible to get a job unless you speak Spanish!!!

Holy Crap...I cant even go to resteraunt and expect to find a waitress that speaks English.....


I say ship em all back...erect walls...minefields and machine gun nests with interlocking fields of fire!

I have seen first hand how they have destroyed the area I grew up in.....horrible horrible

Thats why I cant stand either Obama or McCain...neither will do ANYTHING!!!

I usualy vote Republican but I'll be damned if I support someone who is pro-illegal.

[Sailor Steve]

But reports are already out in Mexico that the large number of illegal immigrants returning home could drive down wages and put pressure on social services

:rotfl:

So the Mexicans don't want 'em back, either?

I hate it when I come late to a thread like this.

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

...but they don't want to do it legally 'cause (insert babies cries here) it's too hard...

I agree in principle, but I think the reality is just the opposite: they don't want to do it legally because just skipping over is too easy.

Some of the finest neighbors I've had have been from South of the Border...

Ooh, bad phrasing. Sounds a little too close to "Some of my best friends are...
:rotfl:

If I were to move to Mexico (or France, or Germany, or Italy, or Russia) I wouldn't expect the entire society to magically start speaking English to accomodate me, why should we be expected to do the same?

The exact argument I always make; though I usually leave Mexico out of the equation simply because so many American tourists go there they practically have to conform to our culture anyway. But that's really just the hot spots. I suppose anywhere in the 'real' Mexico we'd have to work at it.

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Ooh, bad phrasing. Sounds a little too close to "Some of my best friends are...
:rotfl:

Now that I look at it I see what you mean. It certainly wasn't intended in that manner. I may be a redneck, but I's a civilized redneck:rotfl:

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

@ UnderseaLcpl Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Mexicans as a group.

No worries, I see that. It just concerns me that some people do, to the point that "Mexicans" has become synonymous with "poor, dirty, freeloaders"

My gripe is with the concept that a person can come up here (legally or not) and expect to impose their culture on the rest of the country. Someone please explain to me why our entire country should learn to speak Mexican?

One reason, two words; Latino Vote. All the worst parts of profiteering, and capitalism conveniently located in one entity that supposedly is there to look out for your interests; the state.

Methinks we agree on this issue, but we have different arguments about it, no?

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

Methinks we agree on this issue, but we have different arguments about it, no?

I try to keep an open mind about everything (although, with age and infirmity, it closes more and more), but yes, I think we agree in different ways