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[Penelope_Grey]

Minor edit to the final line of my previous post
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=295

[Suicide Charlie]

I like Hiaku's.

Just an FYI, I will be posting my own attempt at a sort of SH Modding Constitution. Please, help me revise it and perfect it. I am not a modder, but I have just as much vested interesting in this as any of you. I want to help fix this and put this disgusting departure from solving a problem behind us.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Not subsim as a whole, I meant the SH4 parts AVG. The problem as I have seen it is that some people here hate GWX and everything we have stood for / done. I feel too as I have stated earlier and KL stated that protection for GWX team members has been substandard round here, and we have had to take abuse needlessly. We are expected to rise above it, too bad the others wont rise with us.

Basically GWX is expected to set an example and well, sometimes it just cannot be done. Like we have said, we don't go looking to start fights. But we are expected to walk away. We too are also forum members here and quite often tarring with a broad brush has took place.

What is this!? Have you not looked on the SH3 section lately.. have you not seen the amount of help posts that the team has answered? Also for the record the ONLY person who has ever been denied permission by GWX was racerboy. Nobody else. If they hate me or us as a whole that is their business. I don't expect people to love me or the team I'm part of... nice if they do. But not essential.

Considering all the slaps in the face we have taken as a whole and individually sometimes... it does result in some bad decisions and actions... nobody round here is a saint.

Some people DO have axes to grind against the Grey Wolves for whatever reason... and it drives some people. Frankly, I'm not too proud to say sorry for the things I have done. So here it is, if I as an individual have acted poorly unjustifiedly, then I am sorry.

But I am not sorry for refuting outrageous lies and vicious gossip and subtle digs and jabs that take place.

We are looking to correct any issues concerning you and anyone else that does not feel welcome in any of the forums. We are looking also to keep it good natured everyday for all. Not getting a friendly reception is just not warranted in any form. You got me on the not visiting SH3 forums. RDP and Seth are there. Under normal circumstances, I do not have to drop by. The fence jumpers however draw my attention if I'm alerted. At any rate and for what it is worth, I did sense some relief from the crew when the last installment was done. Most if not all looked to have some weight lifted or the monkey off their back. I also notices some of the crew showing up in SH4 with helping hands. Privateer, Mikhyl have been around doing some things. In short, I detected a different air about the whole place when the final release was done and on the shelves. But, some of the lingering hard feelings were brewing as well. So, we hope yesterdays and todays throwing under the bus sessions with each other has opened a new door and new forum for the uboats. A bit of understanding of each others goals and hopefully some note sharing to help each other obtain these goals.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Minor edit to the final line of my previous post
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=295

Darn it Penelope, response to your edit. Major lack of modertion consideration when warranted is not refuted. Good to go. We correct today. Use the alert button. Do not let it escalate! As far as your first sentence, I can not say that I blame you one bit.

We good?

[CDR Resser]

This has truly become a lamentable thread. What started out as an attempt at instituting some civility amog the factions here, has degenerated into a tirade of traded accusations and recriminations.

Treat others with the respect that you would like to be treated with yourself.

The level of rancor that has been reached here is truly unfortunate. Someone once told me that when your upset, people get to see with what you are filled. What I have seen here, thus far, has not made me proud. It seems a solution is farther away than when this nonsense was started, and it was not started simply with this thread.

I'm going to ride this storm out at test depth. When the realization that civility and good manners is a requirement for adult company is reached, can someone post a headline. I'm finished here until that time arrives.

Respectfully Submitted;
CDR Resser

[TDK1044]

Having access to the mods workshops here at subsim is a privilege not a right. How successful would any modding team be if Neal shut down the mods workshops here at subsim and the Ubi forum was then their only outlet? They could of course create their own mods website and have total Admin control over it. My money says they still wouldn't be happy though.

The subsim moderators can always learn new ways of improving the moderation process, but it's a two way street. The kind of petulent nonsense that has taken place here makes me think that what we actually need is a Kindergarten Forum not a separatute U Boat Mod Forum.

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by CDR Resser

This has truly become a lamentable thread. I'm finished here until that time arrives.
Respectfully Submitted;
CDR Resser

Halleluljah! and seconded.

[Rockin Robbins]

Go for it! However please coordinate with the moderators as well. Although we have a sense of belonging, it is Neal's and their forum.

It appears that they miscalculated by combining U-Boat and fleet boat modding into the same forum. I don't think they should be blamed for that. They chose a reasonable course of action and it didn't work. They are now choosing another course of action.

I predict that we will be happy with what they do.

Sheesh, I've never been on KL's bad side before! I'm crushed. Time for a good steak. I have no power or desire to harm or destroy Kapt Lehmann, GWX, U-Boats or blank verse. Neither has he the power or desire to harm or destroy RFB, TMO, fleet boats or ice cream machines. We'll kiss and make friends later.

I apologize if anything I have said has been personally offensive to anyone. It was wrong of me to mention GWX theft of NYGM ship damage mode, no matter what I knew to be true, if I was unwilling to produce confidental communications. I will not do that, even to defend my own position. That issue should have been left between the NYGM person and KL himself. The OLC GUI incident is in the Subsim archives, as is Kapt Lehmann's apology, which I believe should be accepted at face value.

We can all make ill-considered judgments and decisions. I think the moderators and BBW are on the right track and I wait for the announcement of their decision, which I will comply with voluntarily and without reservation. I hope others will do the same.

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Darn it Penelope, response to your edit. Major lack of modertion consideration when warranted is not refuted. Good to go. We correct today. Use the alert button. Do not let it escalate! As far as your first sentence, I can not say that I blame you one bit.

We good?

Well ordinarily I'd go away and have a cigar and think about it. But since I don't smoke anymore, I will just have to make a snap decision....

A few people who have been largely ignored by most of us, telling all the participants in this thread how awful we are, on the whole I feel they are wrong to blast away.... For several reasons.

Firstly, Air needed clearing. No two ways about it, I used to be all for peace, but last year 2007 I came to a realisation, sometimes to get peace you must be prepared to fight. Anything worth having is worth fighting for. Now there is some crazy logic.

Secondly, I doubt some of the people who were shocked at the goings on here realised the sheer gravity of everything and how much things have been building. Better to expose the issues to the cold light of day than to just bury them and hope for the best.

Thirdly, out of destruction comes new life. From this, a new beginning will be reached and it will be good for me, subsim, members... the lot. There is no point in patching up a decayed house only for it to crumble again... you may as well blow it up and start a fresh... this thread has allowed that to happen.

So what do I think?
1) Tak's 5 point plan is a goer.
2) The anti-GWX ****e has to stop, and in return members of GWX go to the staff who are extra vigilant in keeping things nice.
3) I start smoking again tomorrow.

I believe that progress has been made in the thread here.

[Mush Martin]

My name is Mush I have antagonized and offended several people
here at subsim I did sometimes for good reasons and sometimes for
Impishness.

For My part in the Staining of the social fabric at subsim I am sorry
to my friends

Kevin
Jeff
Mark

to my enemies especially

Todd.

I am sorry I will work tommorow to make your experience at subsim
better, if its within your hearts bear me out in renewed commitment
to friendship.

Regards
Martin

[edit] I left out a bunch but I should include James and Pen

[danlisa]

Originally Posted by John Channing

If you are going to ask for stronger moderation in the future, it would be helpful not to refer to other people's postings as "dribble".

..and yet, a little over an hour ago, someone hiding behind a group nickname posted a direct attack that needs responding to, after numerous requests from moderators to cease the mudslinging, and you see fit to pick up on KL's minor transgression.

So, openly, in front of all to see, I ask you JCC to unmask the mystery poster or delete the post, or is it acceptable for people to now use dulplicate accounts in the midst of a discussion that needs no further duplicity?

[Suicide Charlie]

Just burn the forums down.

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by danlisa

..and yet, a little over an hour ago, someone hiding behind a group nickname posted a direct attack that needs responding to, after numerous requests from moderators to cease the mudslinging, and you see fit to pick up on KL's minor transgression.

So, openly, in front of all to see, I ask you JCC to unmask the mystery poster or delete the post, or is it acceptable for people to now use dulplicate accounts in the midst of a discussion that needs no further duplicity?

Gosh... has it been an hour already? How time flies!

JCc

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by John Channing

Gosh... has it been an hour already? How time flies!

JCc

Wow, another useful post from 'moderator' JCC.

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Mush, I'll take a chance... and see if you are as good as your word.

Baby steps KL it starts with Me.