All members read this

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by Suicide Charlie

Nor do you need moderators without lives to constantly scan the forums for problems.

Hold the phone there man! :rotfl:

HunterICX

[Suicide Charlie]

For how long!?

btw, I meant that in reference to somebody made earlier in the thread. It seemed to suggest that the moderators should be paying closer attention or some other load of bull.

[HunterICX]

anyway if there is any result we want to see at the end of this thread it would be something like this:

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/in...9e8d23e4ac844a

(I'm sorry I really couldnt resist :rotfl: )

HunterICX

[ReallyDedPoet]

^^^ Seek help now Hunter

Anyhoo, this process needs to stay the course and at the end of the day some workable solutions found. After that if some folks still don't get it, then they will need to ask themselves if they really belong here anyway.

I too have faith in Neal, the membership here and my fellow Moderators that this place will be fine at the end of the day. SUBSIM derserves out best effort to get it done, learn from it and move on.


RDP

[AVGWarhawk]

Very nice folks. I have awoken to find this thread has not grown into 16 pages of mud wrestling. We are making some headway. So, we find we can say forget about it, not worth it, lets move on to something else that does some good. Monolith and Penelope, rest your cases now. According to Suicide Charlie, we are ALL are a bunch of idiots and are displaying the idiocy quite well. Unfortunate for us, he is 100% correct. So, to rehash yesterdays notes (omitting the uglies):

1) A separate uboat mod forum would help bolster harmony amongst the ranks.
Everyone would have their theater of choice to run and play in with impunity
and without fear of reprisal.

2) A moderator (impartial) is needed for this forum. Finding a impartial moderator
might prove to be a impossiblity and propably not needed because point #1
that will bolster harmony will not require this moderator to use the moderating
tools available. Point #3 as a backup if point #1 fails to deliver as promised.

3) For those that do attempt to jump the fence only to pull the switches and
press the wrong buttons (ie covert operations) can and will be subject to
brig time as little as 24 hours but possibly up to 30 days. I suspect the 24 hour function
to be used first to stop the offender and Neal as the final say as to how
the sanction will last.

These are the ideas thrown out there thus far. Without continuance of throwing mud, would anyone would like to interject another point or action to ponder please do so. Although these three plans of action look good, in reality, it is a shame that it has to come to this juncture. More often then not, we find those that rub us the wrong way for one particular instance on the forum, intentional or not, are just as normal as the next guy/gal. Someone you could really get along with and probably with minimal effort on your part. Everyone here is good natured, creative and highly competative. All good quailities to be sure. However, the highly competative nature is what gets us in trouble. Ask Tonya Harding what highly competative nature can do to a person. Ask Nancy Kerigan how her knee is feeling. The follow in a nut shell is Tonya's and Nancy sorted story:


Tonya Harding arranged an attack on Nancy Kerrigan during the 1994 US Championships. She never made it to the Olympics, she was kicked out of skating for it. Tonya was jealous of Nancy because at the time Nancy was America's sweetheart in the skating competitions. Tonya thought she would have a better shot at things with her gone...


This is all that is going on here folks. Kind of strange is it not? How can I belittle someone, what can I do to have another fall from grace, what bystander is going to be my target of opportunity? And for what, superiority, glory, my goodies are better then your goodies, if you do not play the way I want you too I'm taking my football and going home? If you look at all of this in this light, it is quite silly. So, the highly competative nature found here has gotten to the better of us. This has resulted in distrust, chasing away others with potential to add, diminished our standing as a great forum to visit regularly, generated undue stress for some folks, stifled creativity and generally made us all look like the south end of a northbound horse. This is almost if not worse then office politics. I would think we get enough of that in the daily day to day grind.

So, in this thread, we found note takers on particular things said or done that could be of use later on when things get ugly. Accusations and innuendo put on the table. Old wounds reopened for no good reason other then to prove a point (refer back to note takers). Very much like a typical thread that got us here to begin with. However, being LEADING members of this forum as your are, you ALL have a responsiblity to act like a leading members. In some much as your actions, written word and demeanor are scrutinized and combed through. Not by just other modders but the innocent bystanders known as community members. So, typical response like, 'been there done that' to a mod seems like a great post to you, think again. No really, think again. Why not an 'atta boy'? I refer back to this thread once again:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=138507

Perfect example of how it should go. It is up to us to be the bigger person, work with others and keep a level playing field. If at a particular time you find you can not be the bigger person, log off and come back later when your head is on straight. What is it that makes this so hard to understand?

[ReallyDedPoet]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

According to Suicide Charlie, we are ALL are a bunch of idiots and are displaying the idiocy quite well. Unfortunate for us, he is 100% correct.

And he is from that silent majority here that goes about his\her business and does not get caught up in the drama


RDP

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by reallydedpoet

And he is from that silent majority here that goes about his\her business and does not get caught up in the drama


RDP

Sometimes your best source of information is the guy looking in and not those already inside. They have a tendency to see the big picture or the forest for the trees.

[Mush Martin]

@HunterICX

[ReallyDedPoet]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Sometimes your best source of information is the guy looking in and not those already inside. They have a tendency to see the big picture or the forest for the trees.

Totally agree , I asked this a few posts back, how the casual member here felt about what has been going on here, nice to see some posts from them

They speak with clarity and are direct to the point: decent responsible behavior from all will go a long way to solving much of this. Throw in the seperate forum for U-Boat Mods, and we may be on our way here. Those that don't get it after all of this never will, and don't belong at SUBSIM.


RDP

[raymond6751]

Just Stop it ! Everyone...go to your room.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by raymond6751

Just Stop it ! Everyone...go to your room.

I am in my room. :hmm: Should I go to kitchen instead? :p

[Mush Martin]

Put your pants on first and wash your hands

[Dowly]

:rotfl:

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by danlisa

You stand by it, while I ask everyone to check for themselves and decide. Here it is:http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=138212&page=2 the fun starts on pg2.

The facts are there.

While this post is not in the spirit of this thread it does highlight another point we have made here. You posted this http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...5&postcount=98 and accused, openly, of GWX using pack tactics to derail the thread, prompting a reply that needed to bring to the attention of other members the untruth contained within. Again, thank you for proving another valid issue the GWX team has, we react when needed, we do not attack without provocation, whereas you seem content to continue to bring assumed GWX behaviour to this thread.

EDIT - @ AVG

Typing as you posted, sorry. I have made my point and will cease discussion of this issue as I think it has been resolved adequately.

I stand by those statements too, and thank you for posting the link so others can see the definition of rapacious behavior for themselves. You realize that you are not required to testify against yourself?:rotfl:

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

A very nice bait MONOLITH, Your post is not helping the situation. You even realise it with that final line! Yet hit the post button anyway. Also your quotes are very very selective too. Totally ignoring circumstances prior that led to said quotes.

Also, you make us to be the villain... you are not snow white either... Here is the prime example of what I have been talking about all along and your post proves it, just as you're ready to walk away somebody comes along turns you round and wallops you again. You are here placing all blame squarely on GWX's doorstep... its not happening sir... Its not fair, or justified.

You don't like the GWX team... we get it. That's fine... can't say it bothers me much at this moment because you have tried to stir up trouble in our ranks... you failed miserably but you still tried.

This "one group" don't need to be mystic to know who you mean. GWX... You see what you want to see. You don't like GWX so you stand against us and attempt to discredit the team... it is NOT all our fault, and I refuse point blank to be broadly accused of that by you given your past history against GWX.

Sorry Penelope, but I have to use your post against you. Your post is a list of conclusions. There is no information there that contributes to an understanding. Characterization, inuendo, unsupported conclusions, name calling (which you don't use here but is often used), accusation. None of that is in MONOLITH'S post. He presents a reasoned argument. None of the above list is sufficient to replace logic and evidence.

I'm not saying that logic and evidence doesn't exist. All I'm saying is that by not supporting your conclusions, you yield the point to MONOLITH with about an 8-0 score. It is the same with Ducimus' and KL's posts quoted in MONOLITH's post. He presented evidence of how Ducimus, who crosses the line of decency frequently, but did not do so here, presented a reasoned position. KL, as he frequently does, in spite of his real and great abilities, responded with a personal insult. By doing so, he surrendered the field to Ducimus, in effect, agreeing that Ducimus is right.

In reply to my post about the same thread, danlisa responded properly, with evidence, links and then his conclusion. But he left it up to anyone to check the link and see that his conclusions do not follow the evidence, so I thank him. THAT is true argument, which must always be bolstered by facts. It also allows the reader to check the facts and decide for themselves if the conclusion is a logical construction from the facts.

It's a shame that we can't shake ourselves for the ignorance that argument and insult are synonymous. Even when I "attacked" A_____ I used nothing but facts and easily checked examples as weapons. If you're right, that is all that is necessary. Using characterization, innuendo, unsupported conclusions, name calling and accusation is an admission that you have nothing real to support your position and the other person is perfectly correct.

Now don't take this as a personal attack, Penelope. I like you and you know it. We've teamed up a couple of times trying to talk sense to people with U-Boat problems. And I'm not a Fleet Boat only guy. Since the release of SH4UBM I've spent more time in the U-Boat than the Fleet Boat and had just as much fun there, posting extensively about that.