All members read this

[DedEye]

Originally Posted by reallydedpoet

But your point with regards to alienating members is a good one, they are the silent majority, I am curious how the casual member views this current discussion or for that matter, the reasons why this thread was created in the first place.

I come here in spurts and don't say much. I don't know if I'm "casual" since I've been a member so long, but I have to say I was surprised to see this thread, and after reading all of the posts, am surprised at the apparent level of vitriol between some members. Until now I was unaware of this, but I'm not here daily, and don't read all of the threads.

I remain impressed by the level of intelligence, sophistication, composure, articulation (esp for those who don't have English as their native tongue) and dedication of so many of the people here. I play a lot of different PC games (shooters, RPGs, strategy/wargames, you name it), and so visit many sites like bluesnews, shack, etc. Being into myriad sims, I've also visited and become a member in many other forums dedicated to other types. Subsim is easily my favourite, and is in a league of it's own imo. I can't say I've ever had someone say "RTFM!" to me here, and for the most part people are polite and go out of their way to help. Being teh intarweb though, there's all types, which is why we need boundaries and moderators.

While I'm at it, I want to take this opportunity to thank each and everyone of the people who contributed to saving the last 3 Silent Hunter sims for me, which includes most of you posting in this thread. THANKS!

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by John Channing

And before I forget it is probably time for a reminder that, even though Neal did encourage people to express their views openly, this is not a free fire zone.

Keep it civil.


JCC

John is correct here. This was not ment to be a free-for-all as requested by Neal. With all do respect, please adhere to this request. Opening old wounds and dropping in some salt is not the intention of this thread. The intention is to stop what is going on openly in the forums and behind closed doors. I'm beginning to feel it quite impossible. What was looking to be a positive move towards that seems to be faltering at the foundation. Has it gone to far to even begin to become salvaged at all? All who posted, you be the judge of that. Please keep focused on the issue at hand, that is recommendations in stopping what we have witness in a few posts back.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

Danlisa isnt the only one to drag up old threads and old scores
Did I drag up an old score ? - one thread which showed a release of something said not been released
I speak for myself as Dan does
So where was I being hypocritical ?

If all the crew at Ducimus's forum all wore the same sig would they all be lumped in together ?
Doubt it

You try to move forward and tis a drag back all the time
So whats the point ?
No really

Whats the point

To set the record straight, the forum you refer to was started and maintained by Swdw(Sam). He did so when he was given free feign from Beery to take on RFB. In light of bandwidth, respect for what Neal has going here at SS, Sam created this open forum for development. Ducimus was invited by Sam to work TMO from this site. Basically, Ducimus was given a parking spot on Sam's to work with TMO and toss around ideas with the developers of RFB.

[bigboywooly]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

To set the record straight, the forum you refer to was started and maintained by Swdw(Sam). He did so when he was given free feign from Beery to take on RFB. In light of bandwidth, respect for what Neal has going here at SS, Sam created this open forum for development. Ducimus was invited by Sam to work TMO from this site. Basically, Ducimus was given a parking spot on Sam's to work with TMO and toss around ideas with the developers of RFB.

I wasnt refering to kickingbak
matters not

The point was about sigs
If every GWX member wore an individual sig would they get pounced on as often ?
If SH4 modteam members all wore the same sig would it be more visible ?

Again moves away from the original point of this thread which started well and went the usual way
South

Yes I am as guilty of that as some but when questioned I answer
Simple

Still I tried
Stuck with it where others have not
The ultimate decision is Neals
His forum his rules

I'll now add Psychic to my resume.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...6&postcount=23

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

I wasnt refering to kickingbak
matters not

The point was about sigs
If every GWX member wore an individual sig would they get pounced on as often ?
If SH4 modteam members all wore the same sig would it be more visible ?

Again moves away from the original point of this thread which started well and went the usual way
South

Yes I am as guilty of that as some but when questioned I answer
Simple

Still I tried
Stuck with it where others have not
The ultimate decision is Neals
His forum his rules

BBW,

I do not believe sigs have anything to do with it. As far as the bouncing. It has been a two way street from both camps. I do not see where a picture advertising GWX on the members post illicit a response to bounce on the team member. Can you explain that to me because I'm at a loss.

At any rate, the thread has gone south as you observed. Once again, I believe we are getting nowhere and doing so very fast. At this point, further discussion looks to be fruitless. Therefore, I'm still in favor of a SH4 uboat mod forum. Immediate 24 hour ban or longer when threads rear an ugly head...no matter who started what. All involved are sent to the locker room. I see no other alternative. As for a moderator, to be honest, it takes more then one. Sitting in front of a computer policing the threads is not a 24 hour job for one individual. Although Penelope would love to have an impartial moderator, that assurance can not be guaranteed. But, should that really matter if members keep it up to snuff? I suspect some individuals will test the waters as they are having a bad day and someone else is going to have a bad day right along with them. No matter their name, what they posted or what sig they might carry. These individuals will be put aside for a powder. Eventually they will figure it out. Not much else I can say.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by privateer

I'll now add Psychic to my resume.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...6&postcount=23

Good one Privateer but we all knew it was coming. That was a given. What do you say about adding a SH4 Uboat mod forum? Do you think it would quell some of the craziness that occurs from time to time?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by MONOLITH

Okay John, let's look at that for a sec;


I made a statement that said certain posting behaviors create a negative atmosphere. That would seem to be fairly irrefutable common logic.

You, as a staff member, decide to ridicule me for the statement.

When that's the posture of the staff, why would they email you?


I'm done. You guys can waddle in the mess that you say you want to fix, but actually refuse to.

The mess we are waddling in has been created by 99% of the folks on this very thread. Quite the contrary to not wanting to clean it up; this is what this thread is attempting to do. As the usual method of operation, the shots on who said what, where, why and retort to follow has presented itself in the usual fashion. We know without a shadow of a doubt, this tactic does not work. The who started what, pointed a finger at who, I'm innocent and never started anything has been disected beyond recognition to the point that it is all just jumbled information pretty much worthless to all involved. But, as you so point blank put it a few posts back, tough moderation. Immediate 24 hour brig for those involved. Does not matter who started what. As the saying goes, second blow starts the fight. I'm in complete agreement on your stance with this Monolith. However, some are looking for a impartial judge and jury(moderator). Highly impossible to find. Does not matter how impartial the moderator is...ALL involved get banned...not just the selected few.

So if member A says member B is a dork and member B retorts back with your are a dork. Both dorks get the 24 ban. If dork C shows up to support either dork A or B, dork C goes right along with them. Hopefully a 24 hour ban will help dork A, B and C realise they are being dorks and will not do this in the future. Over simplified version but how it would operate non-the-less. Now if member A calls member B a dork but member B refuses the bait, does member B have to sit and take it? Nope, advise the moderator, moderator has a heart to heart with member A. If member A so wishs to continue taunting member B, A gets the ban. Just as there are bullies on the playground, there are bullies here has well. Some of these bullies have friends. We can not tolerate bully tactics nor gang like tactics either.

As much as I wish it was not needed?
I can only see that as the first step to quell this constant
'Bear hunting with a switch' type stuff.

The 'selective memory' stuff is getting beyond silly!!
The constant 'this thread link, that thread link' is non-productive
and is the uglyness I partially referred to.

The 'Petition-demands-call it what you will'
is the other part of ugly I saw coming.

I'll give you all my tools when you give me the keys to your house,
car, motorcycle, bank account, add nauseum!

I, and all others, OWE nothing to anyone here.
We did the hard part and now you want a hand out?

I do not support Welfare.
If you refuse to learn what some have tried to teach?
Why are we now to blame for your lazyness?

I TRIED to teach hex editing at one point!
Even had a thread that Cpt. Cox learned from!

No, that's to hard,
Don't have the time,
add any excuse you want?
it's still just an excuse!

I came in STONE COLD!!
I learned.
But I put in the time!
I did not make excuses and I answer every question I can.

I've even been suspect with the GW Team a time or 2.
Yet I'm 'one of the usual suspects?'

You asked AVG.
There it is.
No disrespect intended but it is what it is.

I'll share what I see fit to share.
No more.
No less.

I've shared things most don't even bother to check on!
Can't use the search function?
Not my problem!

Maybe a rule outlawing lazyness?
:hmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by privateer

As much as I wish it was not needed?
I can only see that as the first step to quell this constant
'Bear hunting with a switch' type stuff.

The 'selective memory' stuff is getting beyond silly!!
The constant 'this thread link, that thread link' is non-productive
and is the uglyness I partially referred to.

The 'Petition-demands-call it what you will'
is the other part of ugly I saw coming.

I'll give you all my tools when you give me the keys to your house,
car, motorcycle, bank account, add nauseum!

I, and all others, OWE nothing to anyone here.
We did the hard part and now you want a hand out?

I do not support Welfare.
If you refuse to learn what some have tried to teach?
Why are we now to blame for your lazyness?

I TRIED to teach hex editing at one point!
Even had a thread that Cpt. Cox learned from!

No, that's to hard,
Don't have the time,
add any excuse you want?
it's still just an excuse!

I came in STONE COLD!!
I learned.
But I put in the time!
I did not make excuses and I answer every question I can.

I've even been suspect with the GW Team a time or 2.
Yet I'm 'one of the usual suspects?'

You asked AVG.
There it is.
No disrespect intended but it is what it is.

I'll share what I see fit to share.
No more.
No less.

I've shared things most don't even bother to check on!
Can't use the search function?
Not my problem!

Maybe a rule outlawing lazyness?
:hmm:

No one can demand what tools you created or used. However, sharing is nice. That is up to the individual. No one can fault you there and your thoughts on the matter, but you answer has nothing to do with my questions.

Do you think a SH4 uboat forum is a good idea? Will it help stop some of the things we see happening in this very thread? Would an immediate 24 hour ban (or longer) for offenders be enough to keep people straight?

Sorry Sir, but did you read the first lines?
I clearly stated in regards to a seperate forum

"As much as I wish it was not needed?
I can only see that as the first step to quell this constant
'Bear hunting with a switch' type stuff'

[Dowly]

Re: Chat room

Subsim had one the last time I checked.

[Carotio]

Have a break everyone and cool down for a second.


Very nice icecream bought at Nancy, France, btw...

This thread should be an attempt to reach each other for a common goal of coexistence for all, right?
I think we all have had the opportunity to stir up old issues, where X and Y disagreed on something.
Can the discussion please get back on track to pointing out single lines of behaviour/conduct, which will please the majority, or shall we just continue the mudthrowing?

Hey, I have had my issues with some GWX members too, but hey, guess, what? I don't give a d@mn about it now. It all comes down to the fact that we're all human beings with that in mind that we all express ourselves in a manner, which we later regret. Then it comes down to self admit and/or forgiveness/to forget.
It also comes down to focus? What do you choose to focus on? Do you only want to focus on all the cr@p posts someone makes? Or can you also ackknowledge all the great posts the same person makes?
F.i. BBW - who is involved in this thread too. I see - in this thread - some posts of his, where I either disagree or just don't get, what he's saying - maybe due to the fact that English ain't my native language or just that he's mouth babbling , don't know. But I also know from SH3 mod workshop that he's been well informative/helping to both newbies and modders with other projects than his own.

This was just an exemple to show that the world is not just black and white. It's also grey.

This is something us daily users can have in mind. Though I did see someone raise a point about moderating. I could also wish that when a user frequently ask others to shut the F up, that user, regardless of skills and contribution, is sent to the brig for 14 days or so. That would might help the behaviour of that person, one can only hope....

Have a nice day everyone

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by MONOLITH

Actually, it wasn't GWX I was talking about with my last sentence.

Sorry Penelope, but not everything is about you and GWX.

It used to be in your not so recent past, you were a member of a little anti-GWX coalition. And you did try to divide us. So I am always naturally dubious of things like that. You didn't say who you were talking about either... and people who don't speak direct and say exactly what they mean IMO are not to be trusted.

Originally Posted by MONOLITH

As for the rest of your post, look again, I have simply pulled actual posts from a thread, to stand for themselves. I haven't 'set anything up' or mislead anything. As for missing posts that 'led up to'...the thread is there for all to see, the only post before jimbuna's is anvarts GWX rub.

So, exactly how do you defend jimbuna jumping in to start the 'oneupmanship'?

Like BBW said, Jimbuna was confirming Anvarts facts. If you see it as oneupping... fine... Nothing much I could do or say to change that.

Originally Posted by MONOLITH

Instead of attacking me with the typical line of 'you have a history with GWX, you don't like us, it's sooo unfair', how about we actually look at the fact and try to figure it out?

I didn't "attack" you with that line. Its true though. You have stated many times you don't like the way the Grey Wolves operate. Given your past attempts on us...

Originally Posted by MONOLITH

You avoid it, because there really is no defense for that post. And it does demonstrate a frequent style of uneupmanship that occurs here. And who's being mystic...lol.. I quoted GWX posts.

BBW has already answered this.

Originally Posted by MONOLITH

My post was not an attack on you, or GWX. I'm simply saying lets' look at the posts.... but instead of doing that, you just attack. Maybe my last line should apply to you after all.

Please don't try to treat me and other SS members like fools. Your post was saying, here is a Ducimus and here is Kpt. Lehmann Which looks better...? In your selections, Ducimus did. Again, I didn't attack you. I just disputed your choice of material as being selective of making a point and promoting your own personal interests.

Originally Posted by MONOLITH

There's no baiting or flaming in my post..only an eagerness to actually review the facts. You either do, or you don't. If you don't, then why not? Isn't that what we're trying to do in this thread?

If you say so. But you were very quick to rake up GW sins and the fact you recognised your post was going to cause a bit of action proves something MONOLITH.

Originally Posted by MONOLITH

So, the question would still be....


Now, since it was clear Anvart's post was going to be an antagonist, what purpose did it serve for jimbuna to jump in and push it and promote a GWX oneupmanship in skwasjer's thread?

[/quote]

This has been answered beautifully for you by BBW.

There is a solution and as I said... all of us have a vested interest in SH4 that we have in common, what we don't have in common is how we want to use it.

EDIT: I think a solution will be reached soon that is good for all of us. I have faith in subsim and Neal.

[Suicide Charlie]

Thank you for absolutely crushing my high esteem in these forums and the subsim modding community. I'm completely disgusted right now.

Speaking of "oneupmanship" this entire thread is full of it and you're all guilty of it. None of you can let it go and stop trying to get the last word in.

IT'S A GAME.

All of you "adults" who have gone on and on about how mature this community is (I have said the same and praised it as well) are acting like a bunch of pre-teens. I can't believe I just skimmed through pages upon pages of "he said she said" crap. You're all seriously worse than the thirteen year old 1337 warriors I used to encounter in old school Counter Strike and Battlefield2. I think Halo is currently sporting a more unified and grown up community than us.

You need no fence to keep you guys in check. Nor do you need moderators without lives to constantly scan the forums for problems. You know what you all need? Some balls and brains to keep your business to yourself and to learn to leave one another alone. That's seriously an elementary level lesson. You guys are so great at reading and writing lines of code and solving problems, but yet you can't even solve this one? Give me a break.

I'm boycotting the both of you babies.