Covert Escalation in Iran

[CDR Resser]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

I can't say what, but I do think something will happen in the next few months. All parties have been making a fair amount of noise.

PD

A saber only rattles when it is sheathed. I makes no noise when drawn.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Skybird

then you cannot escape shaking your head in despair about this new american idiocy

Kinda like some old German idiocy huh Skybird?...your such a dork.

When some Ahole says he would wipe a country off the map...your a fool to turn your back on him...I think that is common sense.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Iceman

Kinda like some old German idocy huh Skybird?...your such a dork.

I second that. They should have never integrated East Germany with the West. The result was SB.

-S

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by MothBalls

Yep. Even read a couple places Iran is digging graves near their borders for the enemy troops they plan on killing. Something like 300,000 of them.

That is just a typical fire and brimstone press release from the Iranians, for the benefit of their populace. They are not actually doing that.

I think it more likely the Bush/Cheny will drag us into it somehow before the end of term. There were a few Admirals that resigned a short while back after being briefed by Bush, that's a red flag.

When Fallon left, a lot of people were speculating he was fired because he disagreed about Iran. But I don't think this admin would make a move on Iran now, it would ruin the election for the Republicans IMO. We will, I have no doubt, be given notice by the Israelis and help them where we can. I've been wrong before, though.

When your top level commanders think your nuts, time to take a step back. Remember back when the military leaders were the warmongers and the civilian government had to hold them back?

True enough.

PD

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I second that. They should have never integrated East Germany with the West. The result was SB.

-S

We aren't going to be calling people names. If you want to argue points, then argue them, but you are both over the line right now. Step back, take a breath and realize that this is just a naval simulation forum. No minds are going to be changed here.

The Management

[Tchocky]

Interesting snippet from Gates on action against iran.

"Gates warned of the consequences if the Bush Administration staged a pre-emptive strike on Iran, saying, as the senator recalled, 'We'll create generations of jihadists, and our grandchildren will be battling our enemies here in America.' Gates's comments stunned the Democrats at the lunch, and another senator asked whether Gates was speaking for Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney."Gates's answer, the senator told me, was 'Let's just say that I'm here speaking for myself.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport...tsy_gates.html

August - I wouldn't be so quick to disparage Mr Hersh. For every Dark Side of Camelot there's an Abu Ghraib, a My Lai, a KAL 007...

[August]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

August - I wouldn't be so quick to disparage Mr Hersh. For every Dark Side of Camelot there's an Abu Ghraib, a My Lai, a KAL 007...

The Abu Ghraib story was not brought to light by Hersh, nor was My Lai. Both were made public by serving members of the US military. As for KAL 007 Hersh did make some accusations of CIA involvement, again based on mysterious and unidentified "government sources" but AFAIK they remain unsubstantiated.

Personally, i think Hersh is good at claiming credit for the risk of others and very good at making things up. I would not trust his reporting one single bit.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

We aren't going to be calling people names. If you want to argue points, then argue them, but you are both over the line right now. Step back, take a breath and realize that this is just a naval simulation forum. No minds are going to be changed here.

The Management

I apologize for my comments, but maybe we can also tone down the constant attacks, specifically on my country. It is non-stop.

-S

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I apologize for my comments, but maybe we can also tone down the constant attacks, specifically on my country. It is non-stop.

-S

Apology accepted, and no harm. I think that you bring a lot of great things to this forum. After all, you are SubSim's Mr. Tech Advice. Still, criticism of a goverment is not on the same level as a personal attack. There is a lot said on this forum about the US, EU, China, Russia, et al. It's all acceptable, so long as it remains 'country X's goverment is doing something stupid', and not 'forum member X is stupid'.

[Ishmael]

Actually, this war scenario was gamed by the US Navy a year or to ago and the first results were that the Red force(Iran) had an overwhelming victory over the Blue Force(US Navy) effectively annhillating all US Naval forces inside the Persian Gulf and closing the Hormuz Straits. Projected US casualties from the exercise ran into the tens of thousands. So, if you want to pay $10-15/gallon for gas and see the Fifth fleet lying on the bottom with the bones of it's crews, go ahead and attack. Meanwhile, the world will dump their petrodollar holdings so our troops in Iraq will have to walk to US bases in Germany while we take wheelbarrows full of cash just to buy a loaf of bread.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Ishmael

Actually, this war scenario was gamed by the US Navy a year or to ago and the first results were that the Red force(Iran) had an overwhelming victory over the Blue Force(US Navy) effectively annhillating all US Naval forces inside the Persian Gulf and closing the Hormuz Straits. Projected US casualties from the exercise ran into the tens of thousands. So, if you want to pay $10-15/gallon for gas and see the Fifth fleet lying on the bottom with the bones of it's crews, go ahead and attack. Meanwhile, the world will dump their petrodollar holdings so our troops in Iraq will have to walk to US bases in Germany while we take wheelbarrows full of cash just to buy a loaf of bread.

I heared that wargame rumoured, with pretty much the results you describe, but I never knew for sure if the wargame was a reality, or just a rumour meant to make an impact on the politcal stage.
You have any details, or links?

[Tchocky]

I was immediately reminded of Millenium Challenge, Skybird. But I'm not sure it that's the one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

[Skybird]

I honstely don't now if the two are one and the same, I lived by the impression that they are two separate, but I could be wrong. About MC's idiotic ending I have read before. Sounds like good tactics to make sure one looses the next war. Why assuming the enemy is stupid and fulfills the role one's own tactic has scripted for him? Dogmatists should be fired from military command ranks. Books you can read - the enemy can read as well, tatctics you tried in the past - he likely will have tried to find a counter-tactic for.

[Skybird]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7486338.stm

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mullen, warns against war with Iran, calling it "unpredictable" and "extremely stressful".

[Tchocky]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...pid=sec-nation

"On five occasions he was ordered to either falsify his reporting on WMD in the Near East, or not to file his reports at all," Krieger said in an interview.